Tickets with no, or only partial, validity due to route or TOC restrictions

[BackOnTheTrain]

The Valley Lines run 7 days a week - was there a replacement bus upon which your ticket would have been valid?

I forget which station it was now, but there were definitely no trains running that Sunday and nor was any kind of replacement bus service advertised that we could see. We had to find a bus stop ourselves and then buy bus tickets to get to Cardiff. It was the day after a major event at Cardiff Stadium where they’d put on extra trains on the Saturday night if that might’ve been relevant. We didn’t check the timetable beforehand as it was inconceivable to us that there wouldn’t be any trains the day after such a major event, and we also assumed TVMs couldn’t sell us a ticket for immediate travel which we couldn’t use. We learned a few things that day!

 

[BackOnTheTrain]

So, a customer could buy a ticket for future travel online and collect it from the TVM (for a fee, depending on the retailer), but couldn't buy the same ticket directly from the machine itself?

These are sledge hammer solutions. How big is the nut?

To be fair, it’s probably not a major problem. Just very frustrating when you’re caught up in it as a tourist and have no idea about the local area. The train company essentially said “tough” when we politely enquired if a refund was possible. It’s the way they responded when we contacted them which really makes the whole thing stick in my mind — the incident happened over a year ago, and the tickets weren’t expensive.

 

[superalbs]

There are various tickets which are routed 'SOUTHERN & C2C'. Example:

http://www.brfares.com/#!fares?orig=SOU&dest=SOC

Of course the NRCOT states:
"If no specific route or Train Company is shown, then (subject to any time restrictions for the type of fare you have purchased) it will be valid on..."

And only one train company is shown, c2c, so this ticket is another one that is impossible to use due to c2c failing to serve Southampton Central.

 

[Haywain]

There are various tickets which are routed 'SOUTHERN & C2C'. Example:

http://www.brfares.com/#!fares?orig=SOU&dest=SOC

Of course the NRCOT states:
"If no specific route or Train Company is shown, then (subject to any time restrictions for the type of fare you have purchased) it will be valid on..."

And only one train company is shown, c2c, so this ticket is another one that is impossible to use due to c2c failing to serve Southampton Central.

On the link you've provided I don't see any tickets that wouldn't get you to Southampton.

 

[superalbs]

On the link you've provided I don't see any tickets that wouldn't get you to Southampton.

Well no, that is the origin.

 

[Haywain]

Well no, that is the origin.

OK then, from Southampton. The only tickets which mention C2C are routed 'Southern & C2C'. As Southern operate trains to and from Southampton, I don't see your problem.

 

[Silverdale]

I don't either, but in any case, are any of those tickets available to purchase anywhere?

 

[krus_aragon]

The Valley Lines run 7 days a week - was there a replacement bus upon which your ticket would have been valid?

Some Valley Lines see no trains on a Sunday: there's nothing to Maesteg, Coryton, or along the City line to Radyr. The likes of Treherbert and Ebbw Vale only see a train every two hours. There's ample room for improvement in the new franchise (once the rolling stock is available).

 

[tiptoptaff]

Some Valley Lines see no trains on a Sunday: there's nothing to Maesteg, Coryton, or along the City line to Radyr. The likes of Treherbert and Ebbw Vale only see a train every two hours. There's ample room for improvement in the new franchise (once the rolling stock is available).

Fair about the city line, although I wouldn't call Maesteg a Valley Line (it's always been part of the mainline side of the franchises) The biggest barrier to a Sunday service to Maesteg is the fact the box at Tondu doesn't work Sundays. It's not straight forward to fix either, as, they can legitimately have taken the job being told they will never have to work on a Sunday.

 

[superalbs]

OK then, from Southampton. The only tickets which mention C2C are routed 'Southern & C2C'. As Southern operate trains to and from Southampton, I don't see your problem.

NRCOT says that tickets can be restricted by company.

Southern aren't a company, and c2c is a company.

The only company mentioned on the ticket is c2c.

Therefore the ticket is c2c only, and c2c don't go to Southampton.

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

NRCOT says that tickets can be restricted by company.

Southern aren't a company, and c2c is a company.

The only company mentioned on the ticket is c2c.

Therefore the ticket is c2c only, and c2c don't go to Southampton.

Whilst I would agree with the sentiment, I would instead interpret the restriction as referring to GTR and c2c. If all route restrictions had to specifically refer to the legal name of the company it refers to, the likes of "Virgin Trains only" would mean nothing at all, as the company is actually called West Coast Trains Ltd. Similarly, "Northern only" wouldn't mean anything as the legal entity is called Arriva Rail North Ltd.

In practice, I think it is evident that any restriction that refers to a trading name of a particular train company refers to the legal entity that trades by that name - these trading names being identified in Appendix A of the NRCoT wherever they differ materially from the legal name of the company. However, you are correct insofar as "Southern & C2C only" effectively means "GTR & C2C only" - or, more practically speaking, "not SWR/Southeastern".

 

[superalbs]

Whilst I would agree with the sentiment, I would instead interpret the restriction as referring to GTR and c2c. If all route restrictions had to specifically refer to the legal name of the company it refers to, the likes of "Virgin Trains only" would mean nothing at all, as the company is actually called West Coast Trains Ltd. Similarly, "Northern only" wouldn't mean anything as the legal entity is called Arriva Rail North Ltd.

In practice, I think it is evident that any restriction that refers to a trading name of a particular train company refers to the legal entity that trades by that name - these trading names being identified in Appendix A of the NRCoT wherever they differ materially from the legal name of the company. However, you are correct insofar as "Southern & C2C only" effectively means "GTR & C2C only" - or, more practically speaking, "not SWR/Southeastern".

Maybe.

 

[BackOnTheTrain]

Some Valley Lines see no trains on a Sunday: there's nothing to Maesteg, Coryton, or along the City line to Radyr. The likes of Treherbert and Ebbw Vale only see a train every two hours. There's ample room for improvement in the new franchise (once the rolling stock is available).

Radyr rings a bell. That might’ve been where we bought our tix.

 

[clagmonster]

So, a customer could buy a ticket for future travel online and collect it from the TVM (for a fee, depending on the retailer), but couldn't buy the same ticket directly from the machine itself?

These are sledge hammer solutions. How big is the nut?

Given that the only TVMs which sell advance tickets are linked in to a journey planner, what is the disadvantage to a passenger in not being able to obtain a walk up fare from a TVM at a station on a day with no service in advance of travel? I suppose some might to avoid queues, but I suspect it is a very small number.

 

[Silverdale]

I suppose some might to avoid queues, but I suspect it is a very small number.

I was specifically thinking about the relatively small proportion of customers who might want to avoid queuing at busy times, but would be locked-out to protect the even smaller proportion of customers who don't look at the timetable or otherwise check there is a train they can actually travel on before they buy a ticket.

 

[superalbs]

It appears the North Wembley to Rugby ticket is being offered on journey planners with a tube leg.

Incredibly misleading, if this is the intended usage.

EDIT: Oh no, nevermind, wrong ticket.

 

[Wallsendmag]

Not until a much improved version of that software is available. Currently, there are too many shortcomings that result from trying to put web-type software onto a TVM.

4.1b is rolling out now, that makes a slight improvement but the next CBE version will give a much better experience.

 

[MikeWh]

4.1b is rolling out now, that makes a slight improvement but the next CBE version will give a much better experience.

Can you translate that into something that an ordinary person can understand?

 

[Wallsendmag]

The LNER TVMs are having an update , the rest was for Haywain

 

[jumble]

Maybe it is worth a London based member who lives near the Wembley area to head to North Wembley to see if the TVM will bring up that ticket for sale? Just to see if it is possible to purchase from the machine.

Could that ticket be a left-over from the days of Silverlink?

I travelled vai Kenton on Saturday
The same ticket is available on BR Fares but the only fares offered on the TVM were via London or not via London
(My partner thinks I am potty for checking LOL)

Jumble