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"Timetable's changing. You can't have one."

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6Gman

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Weird experience at Preston today. Wanted to use the East Lancs but wasn't sure where exactly I wanted to go - depended on journey times and return train times. (Not an area I know well.)

Plenty of Virgin, TPE and even XC (!) timetables in the booking hall, but nothing Northern.

Went to the enquiry desk. Told "timetable's changing so they've put them away".

As I say, weird! (Still over a week to go.)
 
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Mugby

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I find that when a timetable change is imminent, there's a tremendous variation in the approach taken by different stations.

Some of the good ones will have both sets of timetables available in racks with a notice saying 'These start next week' or similar.

At Derby, only the expiring ones are available until close of services on the last day. The new ones aren't put out until the day of commencement.
 

6Gman

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the other option is to use the internet for the information. To my mind it is much easier.

But not when you're standing on the platform at Preston, where a printed timetable would have been much easier.
 

Dentonian

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Weird experience at Preston today. Wanted to use the East Lancs but wasn't sure where exactly I wanted to go - depended on journey times and return train times. (Not an area I know well.)

Plenty of Virgin, TPE and even XC (!) timetables in the booking hall, but nothing Northern.

Went to the enquiry desk. Told "timetable's changing so they've put them away".

As I say, weird! (Still over a week to go.)

Northern have advised paper timetables for services starting 21st May will be available from 1st June (!)
 

Dentonian

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I still maintain that in that situation my phone would be easier but accept you may disagree.

If your phone would be easier, why don't you donate it to 6Gman?

Seriously, are we getting to the situation where people without fully functioning iphones/smartphones will be placed under house arrest?
 

DarloRich

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If your phone would be easier, why don't you donate it to 6Gman?

Seriously, are we getting to the situation where people without fully functioning iphones/smartphones will be placed under house arrest?

what are you on about? This isnt 1953 anymore!
 

Emblematic

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We are already in a world where those without smartphones are excluded from many products and services, and that trend is only going to increase.
 

cuccir

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While smartphone ownership is ubiquitous in much of the population, it is still just under half (47%) of over 55s - though that's more than doubled since 2012. I imagine also that most of that 53% without phones is in the 70+ group.

In about 5-10 years times we can say that it's reasonable to presume smartphone ownership but I think we're a few years away from that at the moment

Source: https://www.statista.com/statistics/271851/smartphone-owners-in-the-united-kingdom-uk-by-age/
 

Busaholic

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You know what? I find a printed timetable doesn't require a battery that needs recharging every day, doesn't become unreadable because we're passing through a tunnel or somewhere else without reception and, in the main, has factual information that is reliable, not interspersed with adverts and presented in a logical sequence. It's amazing, really, that more people aren't mugged for their print timetables!
 

B&I

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Never let what real people actually find easier to use get in the way of the march of progress, or the starting of an argument on here
 

Idon'tKnow

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I don't think I have ever used a printed timetable for journey planning purposes ever, I find them really inconvenient as a drop of water causes the ink to run. The PDF versions on the various TOC websites are very handy though, same with the personalised timetable section on national rail!
 

6Gman

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I do actually have an i-phone, but here are some reasons why I would have found a printed pocket timetable better.

1. I don't have to switch it on, enter a code, dodge that thing that comes on and asks me what I want, go on to google, enter what I want and wait for it to load. I just pick up the piece of paper.
2. My battery was low and I wanted to save it for more important functions.
3. I don't know about web access but phone access at Preston station is (I was later to discover) patchy.
4. I can move from Up to Down timetables virtually instantly with paper.
5. If I drop the paper it doesn't break.

And - in any case - it doesn't alter the basic fact that Preston station should have timetables available. Even if it's only for folk who choose to opt out of technology. :D
 

Roast Veg

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You know what? I find a printed timetable doesn't require a battery that needs recharging every day, doesn't become unreadable because we're passing through a tunnel or somewhere else without reception and, in the main, has factual information that is reliable, not interspersed with adverts and presented in a logical sequence. It's amazing, really, that more people aren't mugged for their print timetables!
1) A single charged device is very easy to maintain - more than one becomes more difficult
2) Downloading useful pdf files to the device allows for offline access
3) The static pdf timetables are exactly as reliable as paper ones - sometimes moreso if recently updated
4) There are no adverts if viewing a document
5) Though there may be presentation differences, the information is almost always in a logical sequence though this is subjective
 

al78

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We are already in a world where those without smartphones are excluded from many products and services, and that trend is only going to increase.

That is called progress. New technology initially gives us more freedomn and convenience, until systems change to make the new technology essential, then everyone is forced to use it. It is a bit like urban development is strongly biased towards motorists, which puts people without cars at a disadvantage, then people ironically refer to the freedom of the car. A strange thing to say in one way, if the choice not to own a car is taken away because it becomes too difficult to do without one, thanks to the motoring bias. Normally freedom is associated with more choice, not less.
 

al78

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1) A single charged device is very easy to maintain - more than one becomes more difficult
2) Downloading useful pdf files to the device allows for offline access
3) The static pdf timetables are exactly as reliable as paper ones - sometimes moreso if recently updated
4) There are no adverts if viewing a document
5) Though there may be presentation differences, the information is almost always in a logical sequence though this is subjective

But does require being able to connect online. My phone is very temperamental in this regard, in that sometimes it cannot connect (although it can pick up the network signal), even in some populated areas. If I am likely to require information on the move I will attempt to get hold of it before setting off, I certainly would not class my phone as a useful reliable source of information via the internet on the move.

In an analogous situation, I would not go hiking in the remote parts of the Scottish highlands without a map and compass, and the skills to use them properly, even if GPS receivers are available, accurate and easy to use.
 

Bertie the bus

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But not when you're standing on the platform at Preston, where a printed timetable would have been much easier.
I've had that very conversation with a VT employee at Preston station. Virgin, in their wisdom, have decided to remove or hide printed timetable sheets at Preston station (the poster sheets not the little booklets). I wanted to know the next train to Leyland and had to ask someone stood near the ticket office. I asked why a major station like Preston doesn't have prominent timetable posters and the response was that was her job to tell passengers what time trains were.

So instead of finding the times of trains for yourself in a couple of seconds you have to queue to ask and they pay someone £20K+ instead of a few quid to print posters.
 

muz379

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The arguments about downloading PDF timetables are somewhat moot , for some people they will find a selection of pdf timetables on their phone/tablet easier to work with . Some will find paper timetables easier to use . Its personal preference , and for the time being whilst TOC's are moving to encourage more people to download PDF timetables they still make paper timetables available .
And - in any case - it doesn't alter the basic fact that Preston station should have timetables available. Even if it's only for folk who choose to opt out of technology. :D

Ordinarily I would agree that they should be available . However with it being so close to the timetable change I dont think its unreasonable to suggest that if paper pocket ones have run out then there will be no more ordered . In that case perhaps station staff should have a facility to print the PDF timetables available online for members of the public . Wont be pocket size but its a fair trade off between wasting money on printed timetables that will go to waste and providing paper to those that want it . . Also any stations in the area with an abundance of timetables could send some to those running low as the change approaches to ensure as little wastage as possible .

I find the explantation that timetables have been put away due to the change a tad strange . It wont take 2 minutes on the 20th for station staff to take old ones out and put new ones in .
 

AlterEgo

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If your phone would be easier, why don't you donate it to 6Gman?

Seriously, are we getting to the situation where people without fully functioning iphones/smartphones will be placed under house arrest?

No, they’ll just be disadvantaged, like you would be if you didn’t have a telephone number or an address to send post to.

I’m fascinated by people who staunchly refuse to get mobile or online. They’re like the Japanese holdouts of World War Two. Who will be the last one to emerge from the jungle, emaciated and insane? :D

You know what? I find a printed timetable doesn't require a battery that needs recharging every day, doesn't become unreadable because we're passing through a tunnel or somewhere else without reception and, in the main, has factual information that is reliable, not interspersed with adverts and presented in a logical sequence. It's amazing, really, that more people aren't mugged for their print timetables!

You’ve clearly never downloaded a PDF timetable onto your phone or taken a screenshot...

There’s nothing wrong with wanting to read paper timetables but they cost money to produce and require chopping down trees.
 

Bromley boy

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You know what? I find a printed timetable doesn't require a battery that needs recharging every day, doesn't become unreadable because we're passing through a tunnel or somewhere else without reception and, in the main, has factual information that is reliable, not interspersed with adverts and presented in a logical sequence. It's amazing, really, that more people aren't mugged for their print timetables!

And yet with my 4G smartphone I can tell instantaneously, for any station in the country:
- where my train is (in real time);
- which platform it will come in on;
- real time info on delays;
- I can read it easily in poor light due to being backlit and zoom in on small text;
- it won’t blow away in the wind;
- I can download documents to read offline;
- agreed on the battery point ;).
 

Robertj21a

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And yet with my 4G smartphone I can tell instantaneously, for any station in the country:
- where my train is (in real time);
- which platform it will come in on;
- real time info on delays;
- I can read it easily in poor light due to being backlit;
- it won’t blow away in the wind;
- I can download documents to read offline;
- agreed on the battery point ;).


I agree with all of that. I also carry a spare, fully charged, battery.
 

The Ham

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What happens locally to me is that new timetables are available to take away with posters providing a summary of the changes whilst the current timetable are shown on posters which only get changed when the new services start. If you want a paper copy of the current timetable you need to ask.

It seams to cover most things.
 

Bromley boy

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I agree with all of that. I also carry a spare, fully charged, battery.

That’s the ideal solution - it’s amazing how fast batteries run down these days when using WiFi, Bluetooth headphones etc.

Unfortunately some models (iphones) don’t have user-changeable batteries so you are forced to carry a mains charger (and find a socket) or lug a bulky power pack around.

That said, apart from on the longest journeys, it’s rarely a problem and should become even less of an issue as battery technology improves.
 
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43055

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I find that when a timetable change is imminent, there's a tremendous variation in the approach taken by different stations.

Some of the good ones will have both sets of timetables available in racks with a notice saying 'These start next week' or similar.

At Derby, only the expiring ones are available until close of services on the last day. The new ones aren't put out until the day of commencement.
Interesting about Derby because I picked up both the new EMT and XC timetables 2 weeks ago in which both the current and new times are available to pick up since then.
 

theironroad

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Can't remember when I last used a true paper timetable, a few years I guess. I normally use online services, primarily NRE app, RTT and OpenTrain Times. It's rare that I download a PDF of a paper timetable, but did a few days ago when the issue of 'pick up' trains arose.

However,the current and ongoing issues of online journey planners not being updated in decent time isn't a great advert for online planning, though obviously a paper timetable changes just as much.
 

davetheguard

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Not just weird, but downright ridiculous! Operating convenience before passenger information yet again.

Yes, very odd. Perhaps they'd run out of the current ones, but if that's the case why not just apologize and say so? Why would they "put them away"? Normally, stations are very keen to hand out remaining stocks of timetables that are about to expire; so there are less copies to be thrown in the skip (or, hopefully these days, the recycling bin).
 
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