Tipping off the Fare Dodgers, or playing it straight.

[Scooby]

This may be a common occurence for others, but it was the first time that I'd come across it.

As our train was rolling into Preston the other night, the guard was advising the passengers the 'change' options that were available to them. But then he said "for those passengers who are travelling to Blackpoo(l) North this evening, please be sure to have your passes and tickets handy , as Revenue Protection Officers are working that route tonight".

Wouldn't that completely negate the work that the RPO's were trying to do, or would it have been done so that ticket sales could be maximised, without going through the rigmarole of penalties, fines etc.

For me, it sounded like the equivalent of the Police giving prior notice of a raid, so that the miscreants could clear their stash !

 

[455driver]

I would hazard a guess that there wasnt a block on and he was just trying to force them to buy a ticket.

I have heard it done quite often.

 

[Cherry_Picker]

It's the speed camera argument, isnt it? Are they there to catch those who misbehave, or are they there to encourage everybody to behave?
Life is a lot easier if everybody just buys a ticket and hasn't left it at the bottom of their handbag or on the train when they reach the barrier at the station.

 

[Stigy]

From experience, those who habitually dodge their fares don't care about Revenue staff carrying out blocks...

 

[Cherry_Picker]

From experience, those who habitually dodge their fares don't care about Revenue staff carrying out blocks...

Indeed. But again, is it really about those people? There will always be a core of people who are determined not to buy a ticket and there really isnt that much you can do about that. There is a far far larger group of people who will buy a ticket if they have to but wont if they think they dont need to.
When they took the barriers out at a lot of stations in the latter days of BR one of the arguments used was that almost everybody bought a ticket so paying the wages of revenue protection staff was a waste of money because the vast majority of the revenue protection staff's job was waving people through who had valid tickets. The point they missed is that people were buying tickets because they knew that their tickets would be checked at some point on their journey. It's prevention rather than cure.

 

[Stigy]

Indeed. But again, is it really about those people? There will always be a core of people who are determined not to buy a ticket and there really isnt that much you can do about that. There is a far far larger group of people who will buy a ticket if they have to but wont if they think they dont need to.
When they took the barriers out at a lot of stations in the latter days of BR one of the arguments used was that almost everybody bought a ticket so paying the wages of revenue protection staff was a waste of money because the vast majority of the revenue protection staff's job was waving people through who had valid tickets. The point they missed is that people were buying tickets because they knew that their tickets would be checked at some point on their journey. It's prevention rather than cure.

I think it depends what the line of route is like as to what type of customer you're aiming at.

 

[4SRKT]

There's also the matter that it's better for the RPOs to wave most people through rather than having to stop loads of people for a bollocking, thus slowing up the whole queue. The guard advising the presence of a block so that more people will buy a ticket will speed the passage of those with valid tickets through the blovk.

I guess it depends on whether you view Penalty Fares as a deterrent or a legitimate revenue stream. I incline towards the former.

 

[Greenback]

Indeed. But again, is it really about those people? There will always be a core of people who are determined not to buy a ticket and there really isnt that much you can do about that. There is a far far larger group of people who will buy a ticket if they have to but wont if they think they dont need to.
When they took the barriers out at a lot of stations in the latter days of BR one of the arguments used was that almost everybody bought a ticket so paying the wages of revenue protection staff was a waste of money because the vast majority of the revenue protection staff's job was waving people through who had valid tickets. The point they missed is that people were buying tickets because they knew that their tickets would be checked at some point on their journey. It's prevention rather than cure.

There's also the matter that it's better for the RPOs to wave most people through rather than having to stop loads of people for a bollocking, thus slowing up the whole queue. The guard advising the presence of a block so that more people will buy a ticket will speed the passage of those with valid tickets through the blovk.

I guess it depends on whether you view Penalty Fares as a deterrent or a legitimate revenue stream. I incline towards the former.

I agree. It's far better to encourage people to buy tickets by having regular checks, or by telling people that there are RPO's operating, than just to wait to see who gets caught.

 

[Captain Chaos]

Whenever I am aware of a station block I will always advise passengers to have their tickets ready for inspection to exit. Otherwise when they get off you end up getting a long queue of people digging their tickets out again as they are not aware. It helps the genuine passengers leave the station quickly and with minimum fuss and helps the revenue guys by making their job a little easier by not having to shout out to people to have their tickets out.

 

[tbtc]

he said "for those passengers who are travelling to Blackpoo North this evening...

Seriously though, you do get a few guards reminding you that the next station has ticket barriers, so retain all your documents - I guess it is like this in a way.

It does raise the question of why the Guard on your train wasn't trying to check everyone's ticket (or lack of) though...

 

[Scooby]

Seriously though, you do get a few guards reminding you that the next station has ticket barriers, so retain all your documents - I guess it is like this in a way.

It does raise the question of why the Guard on your train wasn't trying to check everyone's ticket (or lack of) though...

He did ! and in fairness to him, he went through the train twice in the 45 minutes that we were on it, checking each and every person -- but of course, if a ticket stops at Preston, he's none the wise for someons onward travel plans.

 

[tbtc]

He did ! and in fairness to him, he went through the train twice in the 45 minutes that we were on it, checking each and every person -- but of course, if a ticket stops at Preston, he's none the wise for someons onward travel plans.

Fair enough, in which case I think thats fair of him to mention the "block" on the Blackpool line

 

[185]

Now when you said tipping off the fare-dodgers, I was hoping the train was parked on a viaduct near Dinting......

 

[eastwestdivide]

If you were a regular traveller on a route that doesn't usually have ticket checks after you leave the train, you might be in the habit of putting your used ticket in the bin before you get to where the ticket check was taking place. The announcement might help to avoid that.

 

[Scooby]

If you were a regular traveller on a route that doesn't usually have ticket checks after you leave the train, you might be in the habit of putting your used ticket in the bin before you get to where the ticket check was taking place. The announcement might help to avoid that.

Fair point.

I'd never thought that someone would be daft enough to dispose of their ticket before their journey was completed - that surely is inviting aggravation to come knocking on your wallet.

 

[michael769]

I'd never thought that someone would be daft enough to dispose of their ticket before their journey was completed - that surely is inviting aggravation to come knocking on your wallet.

You would think, bit it seems, from my observations to be the norm to leave the ticket behind when leaving at an open station. Before the barriers were introduced up here trains were normally littered with tickets at the end of the route.

 

[IanXC]

Fair point.

I'd never thought that someone would be daft enough to dispose of their ticket before their journey was completed - that surely is inviting aggravation to come knocking on your wallet.

I'd say that many commuters in areas without ticket barriers would think their journey was complete when they stepped off the train. You should see how many tickets get put in the bins in the vestibules of the 158s I usually travel on! So yes, very useful announcement!

 

[Scooby]

You would think, bit it seems, from my observations to be the norm to leave the ticket behind when leaving at an open station. Before the barriers were introduced up here trains were normally littered with tickets at the end of the route.

I'd say that many commuters in areas without ticket barriers would think their journey was complete when they stepped off the train. You should see how many tickets get put in the bins in the vestibules of the 158s I usually travel on! So yes, very useful announcement!

You learn something new every day . I just accepted that it would be common sense to keep hold of your tickets until you've completed your journey !