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TOC plans regarding advance tickets if destinations become no-go (Coronavirus)?

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HullRailMan

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I can’t understand why people expect rail companies to offer refunds on non-refundable tickets. As things stand, government advice is to not cancel large events and that we can still travel. Postponement of sporting and other events is going against government advice. None of this is the rail companies fault. Why should they end up refunding loads of tickets that they won’t be able to resell, meaning they lose a fortune?
This is why people should have travel insurance. If the government was saying not to travel of that events shouldn’t take place, it would be different.
 

mmh

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Things like stopping the Premier League and the English Football League won't have been done without the Government knowing.

The TOCs don't exist in a vacuum, they are the public facing side of a state controlled railway system, regardless of ownership.
 

Haywain

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It doesn't say they are, it just says the £10 admin fee is waived. Let's hope it stays gone.
Why would the admin fee ‘stay gone’? This is an action taken due to current exceptional circumstances.
 

mmh

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Why would the admin fee ‘stay gone’? This is an action taken due to current exceptional circumstances.

It's not uncommon for things to be added or taken away temporarily and that become permanent. Income tax probably being the usual example.

I'm not going to hold my breath but I too hope the admin fee goes permanently. If it were genuinely an admin fee rather than a disincentive fee it's at far too high an amount.
 

yorkie

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Avanti seem fairly clear that while they have removed the admin fee they are not offering refunds on Advance tickets.
Indeed; some people asked to change the date but the new date is either not known or not yet open for bookings. Avanti had previously instructed them to pay a £10 fee to change it for a date in the future (but still the wrong date) and a further £10 fee after that when the new date was known. Obviously people were unhappy at the prospect of paying £20

But now there is no £10 fee for changes, people will be able to make those multiple changes without penalty, but it's still going to be a faff.
 

Trackman

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Avanti seem fairly clear that while they have removed the admin fee they are not offering refunds on Advance tickets.
They are if you have returned from overseas and have symptoms. They want proof too.
 

Andyh82

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In these exceptional circumstances full refunds should be available on Advance tickets. At the end of the day, passengers will rebook, just at a time that is currently unknown.

Normally if you booked non refundable tickets (and hotels) and in the very rare event the event you were attending was cancelled, you might travel anyway and just have a city break, but is that even advisable for thousands of people to do at the moment?
 

Haywain

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They are if you have returned from overseas and have symptoms. They want proof too.
Proof of symptoms? How will that work, other than a note from a doctor which goes against the self-isolation recommendation.
 

Bletchleyite

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Why would the admin fee ‘stay gone’? This is an action taken due to current exceptional circumstances.

Probably one to delve into in another thread, but because now most of this is done electronically it doesn't even vaguely reflect the administrative costs of most transactions except the odd few where tickets are already printed and aren't e-tickets. £1 would be nearer the mark if we were covering costs plus typical profit margin.

I think a lot of genies will not return to the bottle after this, most notably remote meetings and home-working, something we in IT are already trailblazing (my job has been at least 80% remote for the last 5 years or so now) but everyone else will twig onto too if they're doing office work.
 

yorkie

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The RDG website has a summary of the industry position.
https://www.raildeliverygroup.com/uk-rail-industry/about-my-journey/coronavirus.html
Q: If I decide not to travel due to concerns about coronavirus, will I get a refund?

A: At the current time, there is no advice against travelling. Nevertheless, if your ticket is refundable, you will be able to claim a refund as normal. If you have a non-refundable ticket and choose not to travel, you should contact your travel insurer. 
It appears that LNER are doing their own thing and allowing any ticket booked with them to be refunded.

Do train companies make it easy for third party retailers to do likewise, or is the industry structured in such a way that favours TOCs?

It appears that if someone booked a journey for travel with Avanti, but through LNER, a refund can be obtained. I suspect Avanti will be forced to change policy shortly. Is it viable for third party retailers to do likewise, or are there barriers to that?
 

Bletchleyite

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In these exceptional circumstances full refunds should be available on Advance tickets. At the end of the day, passengers will rebook, just at a time that is currently unknown.

If the admin fee were to be binned permanently, you could just change them out to an arbitrary future date (look for tickets at the same fare to avoid losing value) and change them again once you know.
 

Bletchleyite

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It appears that if someone booked a journey for travel with Avanti, but through LNER, a refund can be obtained. I suspect Avanti will be forced to change policy shortly. Is it viable for third party retailers to do likewise, or are there barriers to that?

As the railway is nationalised in all but name, I expect the Government will force their hand very shortly, just as they did for Flybe.
 

alistairlees

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https://www.raildeliverygroup.com/uk-rail-industry/about-my-journey/coronavirus.html

It appears that LNER are doing their own thing and allowing any ticket booked with them to be refunded.

Do train companies make it easy for third party retailers to do likewise, or is the industry structured in such a way that favours TOCs?

It appears that if someone booked a journey for travel with Avanti, but through LNER, a refund can be obtained. I suspect Avanti will be forced to change policy shortly. Is it viable for third party retailers to do likewise, or are there barriers to that?
LNER advances, no matter who they were retailed through, can be refunded without a fee. Unfortunately this is not being made very clear.
 

yorkie

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What's the position regarding an Advance on Avanti? If booked through LNER it sounds like it would be refunded but if booked through Avanti it wouldn't. Can third party retailers refund them? If they do, do the TOCs or RDG still profit from this by keeping some of the charges (e.g. Lennon fees)?
 

Trackman

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Proof of symptoms? How will that work, other than a note from a doctor which goes against the self-isolation recommendation.
They want proof of travel from an infected country.

Avanti aren't helping themselves here, just been on twitter- people have got wind of the LNER refunds and slating Avanti.
More bad press for them when they had an opportunity to shine.
Anyone from Avanti reading this, you still have time to turn this around and offer full refunds.
I have to buy 6 advances later this afternoon, as it stands I'm going with LNER.
 

Hadders

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This is typical Avanti. Trying to do things on the cheap (seat selector anyone).

This is the sort of thing Virgin would have got right.
 

Birkonian

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Indeed; some people asked to change the date but the new date is either not known or not yet open for bookings. Avanti had previously instructed them to pay a £10 fee to change it for a date in the future (but still the wrong date) and a further £10 fee after that when the new date was known. Obviously people were unhappy at the prospect of paying £20

But now there is no £10 fee for changes, people will be able to make those multiple changes without penalty, but it's still going to be a faff.

Not true. Avanti have confirmed that the £10 fee waiver only applies for the 1st change. No use if you don't yet know when you are going to re-schedule your trip. Surely e-vouchers are the way forward. I'd be happy if that was done to say 50% of the cost of Advance tickets. I'd feel that I'd got something back and Avanti could keep the rest.
 

njr001

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Booked some advance tickets for travel on Monday last October via Virgin trains, Avanti's system won't allow rebooking or refund as booked with Virgin. I agree e-vouchers would be a way forward.
 

Birkonian

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Avanti are being hammered on social media for their intransigence. I'm sure we all understand the rules concerning Advance tickets but this an unforseeable crisis. Many people who have had events cancelled may decide to travel anyway because there are no refunds increasing the risks of spreading the virus. Surely that isn't desirable.
 

yorkie

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Can anyone confirm that any Advance booked with LNER can be refunded, regardless of which company you are travelling with?

Not true. Avanti have confirmed that the £10 fee waiver only applies for the 1st change. No use if you don't yet know when you are going to re-schedule your trip. Surely e-vouchers are the way forward. I'd be happy if that was done to say 50% of the cost of Advance tickets. I'd feel that I'd got something back and Avanti could keep the rest.
Where have they said only one change is allowed? If they are saying that, they are going to have to change the policy pretty quick!
 

Birkonian

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Can anyone confirm that any Advance booked with LNER can be refunded, regardless of which company you are travelling with?

Where have they said only one change is allowed? If they are saying that, they are going to have to change the policy pretty quick!
On Avanti's Twitter feed yesterday. There is a long thread responding to their statement about waiving the £10 fee. Someone asked if they could change dates more than once if they didn't have a confirmed date to re-schedule. The reply was "No, the £10 fee would apply to the 2nd change."
 

yorkie

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I now understand the situation is that operators won't allow retailers to refund Advance fares, except for any Advance fare for travel with LNER can be refunded regardless of where it was purchased.

Advances bought from LNER for travel with other operators cannot be refunded.

Yet LNER's site says:
https://www.lner.co.uk/travel-information/coronavirus-travel-information/
Book with confidence
We want our customers to be able to book with confidence. For a temporary period during the Coronavirus outbreak, we have made it as easy as possible for you to rearrange your travel plans after directly booking with us.

We’re removing the standard £10 administration charge to change your ticket to another day or to get a refund if you are no longer travelling.

If you buy or have already bought a ticket and want a refund, we're also making that easier for you too. You can claim a refund online (choose "other" as your reason and put in Covid19 in the text box). If you would prefer, you can Direct Message us on Facebook or Twitter, email [email protected] or call 03457 225 333. Please be aware that these options may take a little longer due to current volumes.

If your plans have changed and you want to alter your booking, you can do this easily and for free by contacting our Customer Services team at [email protected] or by calling 03457 225 333.
 
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