TOCs "seek bailout" for lower passenger numbers due to the Coronavirus

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Article on the BBC: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-51896169

The government is in talks with rail bosses to put emergency measures in place to deal with falling passenger numbers after the coronavirus outbreak.

Some train operators were already losing money but fewer fares will put even more pressure on their finances.

A senior industry source said fairly drastic measures might be required for train companies to survive.

My personal opinion is that the TOCs deserve nothing. When they bid for the franchise, they should have accepted that there are risks involved in operating the service. They have a contractual obligation to provide service under the terms agreed during the franchise: they must continue doing so, until the point at which it would be impossible without impact to safety or the welfare of their staff. Obviously I don't advocate over-working staff, or forcing them into work when they're ill or have been told to isolate.

Either that, or cancel services, and pay whatever penalties that incurs, including lost revenue and Delay Repay.

If this involves the private sector making a loss, then so be it.

 

[221129]

It's a good job you're not in charge then. What a stupid post.

 

[scruffer04]

+1 Agree

 

[43096]

It's a good job you're not in charge then. What a stupid post.

Why is it stupid? Why should train operators be subject to any more Government support than any other business? If they don’t have a “force majeur” clause in their contracts, then more fool them.

 

[StephenHunter]

These are not normal circumstances.

 

[Howardh]

I can see TOC's reducing services across the board and, unfortunately, laying off staff until the epidemic starts to end. On writing that, I'm not sure if contractually staff CAN be laid off, maybe someone could educate me?
But if I were working for the railways, I'd sooner go part-time than be laid off, might be half the wage but it's a wage and less tax to pay.

EDIT - what happened to railway staff during the "three day week"? I can see something like that being brought in by the majority of industries and businesses if things become so slack.

 

[221129]

Why is it stupid? Why should train operators be subject to any more Government support than any other business? If they don’t have a “force majeur” clause in their contracts, then more fool them.

Because all that happens when the TOC get sick of it and hand the keys back is that the government get left to clean up the mess of their own making. Either way the government will be paying out either as a bailout payment or through increased subsidy in the longer term.

 

[geoffk]

It's a good job you're not in charge then. What a stupid post.

What you're saying is "nationalise the losses while privatising the profits".

 

[221129]

I can see TOC's reducing services across the board and, unfortunately, laying off staff until the epidemic starts to end. On writing that, I'm not sure if contractually staff CAN be laid off, maybe someone could educate me?
But if I were working for the railways, I'd sooner go part-time than be laid off, might be half the wage but it's a wage and less tax to pay.

Not if they wanted to run a service after it all blows over in a few months..

 

[Antman]

It's a good job you're not in charge then. What a stupid post.

And it's a good job you're not in charge either. I realise these are exceptional circumstances but even so, a lot of businesses are going to be out of pocket. What makes train operators such a special case?

 

[GRALISTAIR]

What you're saying is "nationalise the losses while privatising the profits".

It sure sounds like that. I am a capitalist but also a humanist. I have no problem there being a government bailout but that has to be considered a loan. That loan should be paid back with interest at the going rate which MUST come out of future bonuses etc. that seems only fair.

 

[hooverboy]

Article on the BBC: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-51896169


My personal opinion is that the TOCs deserve nothing. When they bid for the franchise, they should have accepted that there are risks involved in operating the service. They have a contractual obligation to provide service under the terms agreed during the franchise: they must continue doing so, until the point at which it would be impossible without impact to safety or the welfare of their staff. Obviously I don't advocate over-working staff, or forcing them into work when they're ill or have been told to isolate.

Either that, or cancel services, and pay whatever penalties that incurs, including lost revenue and Delay Repay.

If this involves the private sector making a loss, then so be it.

my personal opinion is that this should all be covered under the "emergency provisions act"
if it is not written in,then what idiot designed the contract?

it is de-facto nationalisation,and certainly not for profit.
I warned some time ago about going on a war footing,and the measures that could and would be taken.

you are now seeing it in action.

(i didn't expect this,but I did expect saudi v iran causing an oil supply crunch and basically obliterating 1/3 the worlds oil supply and shipping)

if there is any silver lining to this cloud it will make business take a good,long.hard look at their supply chains,and just how fragile they are.
with any luck they will see some sense and make some provision in the future for having a lot more stuff done in-house.

 

[mmh]

And it's a good job you're not in charge either. I realise these are exceptional circumstances but even so, a lot of businesses are going to be out of pocket. What makes train operators such a special case?

That they provide a public service on behalf of and under contract to the government.

 

[bb21]

That is enough.