TOCs that are still not doing on-board ticket checks?

[Cardiff123]

I noticed in April that ScotRail announced very publicly that they were resuming on-board ticket checks by guards and ticket examiners. I expected other TOCs would follow suit.
However, my local operator, TfW Rail, still hasn't resumed on-board ticket checks and I haven't had my ticket checked once on any of my TfW journeys recently. Unless you're travelling to or from a staffed, barriered station, TfW is essentially providing a free service at the moment. Yet yesterday, Welsh Govt announced that it had to provide extra financial support to TfW to keep it going into the autumn, at the same time as most passengers are being allowed to travel on the vast majority of TfW Rail's services for free. I'm not suggesting that extra financial support wouldn't be needed if all passengers were paying on-board, but it would make a small dent in the financial hole they are facing.

This situation can't be sustainable where government is being expected to pump money into rail services to keep them going, yet passengers are allowed to travel for free.

What's the situation like on other TOCs? If ScotRail can re-introduce on-board ticket checks, why can't all other TOCs across Britain do the same? The pandemic is just as bad in Scotland now as it is elsewhere in Britain. Does anyone know what the specific agreement is between the Scottish Govt, ScotRail & the unions that means they have re-introduced ticket checks, but elsewhere in Britain it seems the rail service is still free?

 

[HST274]

WMR aren't really but then they rarely did in my experience pre covid

 

[v199629]

GWR, SWR, TPE, Northern and Avanti West Coast all have resumed their ticket checking on trains based on my recent travel.

TfW seems to be the only TOC currently not stopping at station with local door operation to comply with social distancing which could suggest they are a bit behind compared to other TOC in getting back to normal.

 

[Randomer]

It seems likely that the issue is more to do with the differences in public health guidance and regulations in different areas of the country. Wales has had the strictest advice in terms of social distancing pretty consistently. It wasn't relaxed down to 1m plus with masks at any point unlike in England for example. I doubt the Welsh government are pushing for a return of ticket checks etc. in what could be seen as contravention of there own current guidance.

I suspect TfW might be struggling to justify even a limited risk of doing ticket checks when the current statutory guidance from Public Health Wales for employers is that 2m social distancing must be maintained even with enhanced protective measures. The guidance note (which isn't statutory) also repeatedly mentions especially avoiding close face to face contact. Which I believe is not the case in England or Scotland currently.

It's still affecting me at work currently (non railway related) and doesn't look like it will be relaxed any further until restrictions are eased down. For context control measures include things like FFP2 masks, disposable overclothing, limits on exposure in terms of time and limits on number of people worked with whilst within 2 meters (again note not railway related and obviously a result of my employers risk assessment not my personal views). I think the stricter Welsh guidance if causing differences in lots of industries and TfW are showing a transport related example of it.

 

[Cardiff123]

It seems likely that the issue is more to do with the differences in public health guidance and regulations in different areas of the country. Wales has had the strictest advice in terms of social distancing pretty consistently. It wasn't relaxed down to 1m plus with masks at any point unlike in England for example. I doubt the Welsh government are pushing for a return of ticket checks etc. in what could be seen as contravention of there own current guidance.

I suspect TfW might be struggling to justify even a limited risk of doing ticket checks when the current statutory guidance from Public Health Wales for employers is that 2m social distancing must be maintained even with enhanced protective measures. The guidance note (which isn't statutory) also repeatedly mentions especially avoiding close face to face contact. Which I believe is not the case in England or Scotland currently.

It's still affecting me at work currently (non railway related) and doesn't look like it will be relaxed any further until restrictions are eased down. For context control measures include things like FFP2 masks, disposable overclothing, limits on exposure in terms of time and limits on number of people worked with whilst within 2 meters (again note not railway related and obviously a result of my employers risk assessment not my personal views). I think the stricter Welsh guidance if causing differences in lots of industries and TfW are showing a transport related example of it.

Thanks for that detailed explanation. Whilst it makes sense, it's unfortunate that a lot of people will now see TfW services as 'free', especially on the Valley lines, where pre-Covid, TfW (and ATW before them) had a concerted campaign to get the message out that the Valley lines were not a free rail service through policies such as 'buy before you board'. All of that messaging will now have been undone. There's posters at stations still advertising this message, but it's meaningless as passengers know no one will be checking their tickets, so they can get away without paying (unless they are getting off at Cardiff Central or Queen St).

 

[Ianno87]

GWR, SWR, TPE, Northern and Avanti West Coast all have resumed their ticket checking on trains based on my recent travel.

TfW seems to be the only TOC currently not stopping at station with local door operation to comply with social distancing which could suggest they are a bit behind compared to other TOC in getting back to normal.

EMR have been doing them regularly on Norwich-Liverpool services.

 

[pdeaves]

It appears that Greater Anglia checks are 'mixed'. Some inspectors roam the train doing normal checks, others make an announcement that if they are not doing checks and you need them you will find them in the back cab (or wherever). It appears to be a staff personal choice rather than policy that certain service types do or don't have checks.

 

[les.]

I travelled back from Oxted to Grimsby Town a few days ago and my ticket was not checked once on my entire journey, (That was Southern, LNER and East Midlands, which was very unusual) although I did need it for the journey across London on the underground. On the KX to Newark leg of the journey I had also "won" a 1st class upgrade on Seatfrog. Turns out I could have just sat in there with my normal advance ticket and saved myself £8.

 

[Cardiff123]

I travelled back from Oxted to Grimsby Town a few days ago and my ticket was not checked once on my entire journey, (That was Southern, LNER and East Midlands, which was very unusual) although I did need it for the journey across London on the underground. On the KX to Newark leg of the journey I had also "won" a 1st class upgrade on Seatfrog. Turns out I could have just sat in there with my normal advance ticket and saved myself £8.

I could've saved myself a lot more than £8 recently on the journeys I've taken on TfW that I've paid for, that I could've got for free.

 

[mmh]

I noticed in April that ScotRail announced very publicly that they were resuming on-board ticket checks by guards and ticket examiners. I expected other TOCs would follow suit.
However, my local operator, TfW Rail, still hasn't resumed on-board ticket checks and I haven't had my ticket checked once on any of my TfW journeys recently. Unless you're travelling to or from a staffed, barriered station, TfW is essentially providing a free service at the moment. Yet yesterday, Welsh Govt announced that it had to provide extra financial support to TfW to keep it going into the autumn, at the same time as most passengers are being allowed to travel on the vast majority of TfW Rail's services for free. I'm not suggesting that extra financial support wouldn't be needed if all passengers were paying on-board, but it would make a small dent in the financial hole they are facing.

This situation can't be sustainable where government is being expected to pump money into rail services to keep them going, yet passengers are allowed to travel for free.

What's the situation like on other TOCs? If ScotRail can re-introduce on-board ticket checks, why can't all other TOCs across Britain do the same? The pandemic is just as bad in Scotland now as it is elsewhere in Britain. Does anyone know what the specific agreement is between the Scottish Govt, ScotRail & the unions that means they have re-introduced ticket checks, but elsewhere in Britain it seems the rail service is still free?

This doesn't fit with my experience of TFW in the North. You won't get an on-board ticket check, but you are far more likely to have your ticket checked at stations than at any time in the past twenty years, often backed up with a heavy presence of BTP and private security guards.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Trust that this thread isn't a roundabout means of determining with which ToCs it's likely that one might get a free ride (or free first class upgrade). As if!

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

I could've saved myself a lot more than £8 recently on the journeys I've taken on TfW that I've paid for, that I could've got for free.

I think most people pay up front at booking office/ATM/online, and TfW has strategically-placed barriered stations for those that don't/can't (eg Shrewsbury and Chester at my end of "Wales").
Some Welsh rural lines are in any case free to local residents over 60.

 

[mmh]

I think most people pay up front at booking office/ATM/online, and TfW has strategically-placed barriered stations for those that don't/can't (eg Shrewsbury and Chester at my end of "Wales").
Some Welsh rural lines are in any case free to local residents over 60.

Yes, at least at this end of the TFW network I suspect there are relatively few journeys that actually take place where there's a certainty of no check and that ticketless travel is a lot rarer than some imagine. Personally, I do on occasion travel ticketless in one direction as my local station has no purchasing facilities, however as the destination station does and I need to return home all the railway has "lost" is the 10p difference between a single and a return.

 

[Cardiff123]

Trust that this thread isn't a roundabout means of determining with which ToCs it's likely that one might get a free ride (or free first class upgrade). As if!

No, it's a thread to try to determine why some TOCs seem to be now regularly checking tickets on-board, but others (as in my experience) seem to still never be doing this, and haven't done it for 16 months now.

 

[ValleyLines142]

Don't know whether it's purely by chance but I haven't had a ticket check on XC between Cardiff and Gloucester for ages.