Told off by bus driver for trying to use Plus Bus in Llandudno

[gray1404]

Last week I had a Liverpool to Llandudno Off Peak Return with Plus Bus added. We finished our journey short at Llandudno Junction, caught a bus to Conwy to have a look around then another bus from there into Llandudno Town. Later we tried to catch a bus from Llandudno Town up to the Great Orme (I think it was the 26). Upon boarding the driver told us that we could not use our Plus Bus tickets and that they were only for us to get from that station into the town. I replied by saying I think they can be used to go up the Orme and if he could please bear with me while I load the validity map on the Plus Bus website to check. http://www.plusbus.info/sites/default/files/pdfs/Llandudno 2.pdf

I didn't need to do this as he then responded by saying he was not stopping us travelling but was just saying we shouldn't be using those tickets but he would let us off. I thanked him and we got on. I have just double checked the map (something I did before buying the tickets) and it would appear the tickets were totally valid for the journey we wanted to make. We had no problem on the return bus journey down (different driver) and we did our return journey from Llandudno back to Liverpool by train.

My question is: are the maps on Plus Bus website totally reliable or do they often show too wide a validity area then they should? I don't really want to complain about the bus driver as he wasn't actually rude - well, it did feel like a telling off at first but I guess I can let that go. Just gave out incorrect information. I could just say "in the afternoon of" and not name the specific bus. That way I could ask Arriva to remind all their drivers at the depot by way of a memo or something of the validity area. The thing is I have family who live up there so do use these tickets in Llandudno a fair bit so don't want any more problems.

 

[BlueFox]

It sounds like the driver misunderstood what a plusbus ticket is, rather than the area it's valid for. I've heard lots of stories of drivers thinking a plusbus ticket is just to allow people to go to and from the station, when it's actually a day ticket.

 

[gray1404]

I bet the problem then is not the actual drivers but rather the bus companies, willing to accept the revenue from Plus Bus tickets told, but not giving proper training to their drivers about the scope of the tickets and where they can be used. Of course I am sure there are some exceptions to this.

 

[WelshBluebird]

Considering I have had issues in the past with using cross operator bus tickets on buses before, I am not surprised that PlusBus ends up being an issue too. Even when the damn schemes are advertised on posters right next to the cab the driver is sitting in!

 

[RJ]

It sounds like the driver misunderstood what a plusbus ticket is, rather than the area it's valid for. I've heard lots of stories of drivers thinking a plusbus ticket is just to allow people to go to and from the station, when it's actually a day ticket.

Yeah I had this in Loughborough once when a driver got stroppy with me using one on the Sprint service. I ended up paying for a ticket because I didn't have the time to argue with her and never did get my money back. It was only her, none of the other drivers had any problems and I used them for 3 years.

Conversely I had a few passengers attempting to use Slough Plusbus tickets on the 607 in London - they got upset when I refused to accept them!

 

[gray1404]

One time I was forced to buy a ticket when my Plus Bus was refused and when I complained Arriva sent me a £10 Marks and Spencer voucher once I complained to the Bus Appeals Body if I remember rightly . This is going back though. But the driver said to me that if he let me on with an invalid ticket and the inspector got on he (the driver) would be in trouble. Is this actually true? I thought if you were found by an inspector without a valid ticket it is the passenger who is dealt with - not the driver? But I have heard a couple of Arriva drivers say to this other passengers too over the years.

Although, outside the TfL area I am not sure exactly what action I bus company can take against a passenger short of getting them to pay the correct fare or indeed a standard fare if buses are not as regulated as the railways.

 

[robbeech]

I bet the problem then is not the actual drivers but rather the bus companies, willing to accept the revenue from Plus Bus tickets told, but not giving proper training to their drivers about the scope of the tickets and where they can be used. Of course I am sure there are some exceptions to this.

Where have we seen this before?


As for the drivers getting into trouble I’m not sure. Certainly on the railway if you are given permission to travel then it is just that. I’m not sure how that transfers into bus world.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Where have we seen this before?


As for the drivers getting into trouble I’m not sure. Certainly on the railway if you are given permission to travel then it is just that. I’m not sure how that transfers into bus world.

I would expect that if a member of railway staff without the remit to give permission to travel, e.g. a cleaner, was found to be doing this repeatedly, they would be subject to disciplinary action.

 

[dcbwhaley]

I would expect that if a member of railway staff without the remit to give permission to travel, e.g. a cleaner, was found to be doing this repeatedly, they would be subject to disciplinary action.

I have had difficulty persuading bus drivers to accept Greater Manchester Wayfarers. They insist that it is a railway ticket. And to be fair it does look like a railway ticket.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I have had difficulty persuading bus drivers to accept Greater Manchester Wayfarers. They insist that it is a railway ticket. And to be fair it does look like a railway ticket.

I see nothing has changed in the last 20 years, then. Some bus drivers seem to like nothing other than cash payment. I can't think why that might be.

 

[robbeech]

I would expect that if a member of railway staff without the remit to give permission to travel, e.g. a cleaner, was found to be doing this repeatedly, they would be subject to disciplinary action.

I agree, however that would be between them and their employers.

 

[dcbwhaley]

I see nothing has changed in the last 20 years, then. Some bus drivers seem to like nothing other than cash payment. I can't think why that might be.

Bus drivers these days have to be content to accept Concessionary Travel Passes. 80% of the passengers seem to use them and the first bus after 0930 is always packed.

 

[FenMan]

It can be a lottery useng PlusBus. I've had issues in Aylesbury (two Star Travel** drivers there) and Bishop's Stortford (Arriva, where we had to point to the large PlusBus symbol on the side of his bus!). We were taking care to use companies listed on the PlusBus site. Each time there were enough of us to politely "persuade" the drivers to accept our tickets. We did make it clear to them that we welcomed any ticket inspection by inspectors etc.

**Star Travel have since withdrawn from the scheme so the Aylesbury ticket is now of little value.

 

[noddingdonkey]

I have had difficulty persuading bus drivers to accept Greater Manchester Wayfarers. They insist that it is a railway ticket. And to be fair it does look like a railway ticket.

The train and bus Metro DayRover was changed so it can only be issued at a booking office because they had too many problems of bus drivers refusing tickets that were perfectly valid but not on the special ticket stock.

 

[krus_aragon]

It's been a few years since I used plusbus tickets in the Llandudno area, but I didn't have much issue with having them accepted.

My wife had an issue with a bus driver telling her that she was out of the validity area of a Colwyn plusbus, however, and she acquiesced and bought another ticket "to the boundary" from the driver. Having checked the validity map I put in a complaint on her behalf, and she received a complimentary ticket for her troubles.

Unsurprisingly, the plusbus boundary was redrawn a month or two later, to exclude the bus stop where she'd been.

 

[Welshman]

he then responded by saying he would let us off.

Unfortunately, a standard response of some who are challenged and haven't the grace to admit they're wrong.
The map clearly shows you were correct.

. But the driver said to me that if he let me on with an invalid ticket and the inspector got on he (the driver) would be in trouble.

Unfortunately, another response in an attempt to save face.
I have been retired in N. Wales for the last 9 years, and travelled extensively on Denbighshire, Conwy and Gwynedd buses - Arriva, GHA[as was] Express[as was] and Llew Jones, and cannot remember a single occasion when an inspector boarded the bus. Do they still have them?

 

[krus_aragon]

I have been retired in N. Wales for the last 9 years, and travelled extensively on Denbighshire, Conwy and Gwynedd buses - Arriva, GHA[as was] Express[as was] and Llew Jones, and cannot remember a single occasion when an inspector boarded the bus. Do they still have them?

I've encountered a ticket inspector on at least one Arriva service, though I'm struggling to remember which. I'm suspecting a 51 between Rhyl and St Asaph, or possibly a 13 near Colwyn Bay. This'd be in the past five years.

 

[pdeaves]

We once bought PlusBus to get from Linlithgow to Bo'ness. It turned out (according to the drive; we didn't argue) that the only operator that runs that route is not part of the PlusBus scheme.

 

[Deafdoggie]

The best thing, if experiencing issues with PlusBus, is to complain to both the bus operator and the overall organiser (usually the local authority/council) The bus company will usually speak to the driver concerned, the organiser will speak to the company. If there are recurring problems with an operator, they will sort that out too.
There are many threads on here about rail staff not accepting valid tickets (Euston barrier staff, looking at you!) so it is just bus drivers have a lot of ticket types, and some they don't come across very often.
There are inspectors, but not many! The first thing they should do when boarding a bus, is say to the driver "Is everything in order?" Whilst, ideally, the answer is "Yes" they can go "That gentleman had a ticket I didn't know about, but he told me it was valid, so I let him travel" and that i usually acceptable, unless it is every passenger on the bus! What the inspector is really looking for, is passengers who gave the driver cash, but didn't get a ticket-in other words, the driver potentially pocketed the cash. With contactless payments, CCTV, pre-pay tickets, etc, drivers now take little cash, so the issue is less of a problem, hence less inspectors.
But bear in mind, any manager worth his weight will know what each duty brings in, and any driver regularly paying in less, will see more inspectors on their bus, as something isn't right somewhere.

 

[PermitToTravel]

Hence hints when a fixed line / regular school driver is off: "You'll take about £120, pay in about £70"...