'Tony Blair could become the first ever President of Europe'

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Oswyntail

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And persecuted Jews, Homosexuals, Gypsies etc. Never forget that Nazi persecution of Jews started in March 1933 when the Nazis started a boycott of Jewish businesses, later culminating in the Holocaust.
I don't think Old Timer is disputing that, only illustrating that a leader can be popular, and do things that benefit everyone, to the extent that the population can come to accept the bad things as well. We have seen it (to a lesser extent, of course) with Margaret Thatcher and Tony Blair, who made a particular art form of it. One of the real tragedies of the current government is that Gordon Brown seems to believe that electors loved Labour, rather than Blair, and so they must in turn love him, and he has run out of "good" things to do and doesn't realise that people will not look away from the "bad".
 
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jon0844

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Saddam Hussein also ran a pretty tight ship, and had a good education and health care system. In fact, I suspect many evil dictators are actually capable of doing good things for their 'people', the problem is that you either tow the line or - well - we all know what happens.

I am not suggesting Hitler, Saddam Hussein or many other dictators are a good thing, but we seem to have gone to the other extreme where we let people get away with murder and discipline is frowned upon.

Surely there's some middle ground?

Anyway, I am sure Tony Blair as EU President is a shoe-in so let's wait and see...
 

Old Timer

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Thank you, old chap.

The problem, in my view, is that Politics in the UK has been destroyed for ever as a result of the following :-

1) Bliar moved the agenda away from detail Policies by reducing everything to a memorable news headline grabbing soundbite and Sun reader speak ;

2) There are very few "conviction" Politicians anymore. Pretty much all of the Labour Governments have been dominated by those who entered Politics from University with degrees in Politics, and who see it as a means to an end. Proper MPs such as Frank Field have been marginalised to make way for non-entities such as the Millibands for example ;

3) Much of our Institutions have been Politicised and Labour "placemen" put in charge. The Public now no longer trust anything that a Government official or Minister might say. This bias has also had a cynical and calculating effect on debate. For example Brown was given a very easy time because Andrew Marr is a committed Labour supporter. This could be seen in the way that he treated David Cameron earlier on today for example when every time Cameron tried to answer a question, Marr immediately leapt in again barracking him about the answer he was trying to give ! The most absurd part was where he was demanding to know about how many jobs would be lost under "Tory cuts in Public spending" when he already knows that Labour have massive cuts planned themselves. He did not see fit to ask that type of question to Brown though. And as for the Referendum, well it was a Labour (Brown) absolute Manifesto and personal committment that there would be one before the 2005 General Election. That was never followed up by the action, yet Marr saw fit only to barrack Cameron and never asked Brown why.

4) Labour has excelled at "spin, and disingenuity, and smoke and mirrors Politics" to the point that nothing is as it seems, the same money and Policies are announced over and over again, and Policy announcements are leaked through their Cronies in the Media rather than being announced properly through the Parliamentary process.

5) Labour Politicians now see themselves as above and beyond the reach of the Law (Baroness Scotland and Harman being just the latest examples), and actually have now reached the stage where they actually believe their own spin and hype, even when the facts to the contrary are staring at them in the face.
 

Swift-Deere

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3) Much of our Institutions have been Politicised and Labour "placemen" put in charge. The Public now no longer trust anything that a Government official or Minister might say. This bias has also had a cynical and calculating effect on debate. For example Brown was given a very easy time because Andrew Marr is a committed Labour supporter. This could be seen in the way that he treated David Cameron earlier on today for example when every time Cameron tried to answer a question, Marr immediately leapt in again barracking him about the answer he was trying to give ! The most absurd part was where he was demanding to know about how many jobs would be lost under "Tory cuts in Public spending" when he already knows that Labour have massive cuts planned themselves. He did not see fit to ask that type of question to Brown though. And as for the Referendum, well it was a Labour (Brown) absolute Manifesto and personal committment that there would be one before the 2005 General Election. That was never followed up by the action, yet Marr saw fit only to barrack Cameron and never asked Brown why.
Thee BBC biased and Left Wing and avoids what most British people wish to see and hear and the worst bit is people are charged via tv licence for this left wing liberal rubbish
 

Oswyntail

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We have quite a lot to thank Thatcher for.This amongst other things.
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=11950
Now just remind me - when was it Labour took power? Ah yes, 12 years ago! And still we have supposedly intelligent ministers blaming the current state of affairs on the legacy they were handed (Such as the "Chronic underinvestment in rail under the Tories" - an urban myth if ever there was one!). I don't mind parties with whom I do not totally agree winning elections - it's when they do NOTHING except whinge about the mess that it really gets my goat.
 

Old Timer

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We have quite a lot to thank Thatcher for.This amongst other things.
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=11950
Whilst I hate to dispute with you, old friend, the article omits to mention that it was the complete removal of all financial controls on the financial sector, together with the policy of financial institutions being allowed (indeed encouraged) to lend money that was implemented under Bliar and Brown in order to create a feeling of wealth, that has created this mess.

The article is also technically wrong about pensions as well because it was the reforms of the 1980s which allowed the ability to invest more widely in additional pension provision contributions. The Conservative Government at the time was advising people to invest in pensions in order to provide for a more secure future as they had identified that there was a pension "timebomb" Attempts to organise a cross-Party solution failed because.....yes you guessed it.....Labour preferred to play a cynical game of Political tennis, and stand at the Opposition front benches criticising and making cheap Political gain, rather than working towards a concensus agreement to solve the problem.

Had Labour not raided the Pensions Funds as soon as they came to power, and removed their tax exempt status in order to use the money for exorbitant spending, then you, and the other retired guys, as well as myself would be in a much more comfortable and secure position than we are today.

A recent pension mailing I received showed in heart-breaking detail how substantially my pension arrangements have collapsed since 1997. Indeed had I put the contributions under the mattress, they would have been worth more. What a damning indictment.

The authors of this collapse however not only will benefit from a defined benefits scheme of some largesse, but have also voted themselves considerable increases in the final salary arrangements, whilst other pension funds are being closed or substantially affecting the performance of the employees Company.
 
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Mojo

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Thee BBC biased and Left Wing and avoids what most British people wish to see and hear and the worst bit is people are charged via tv licence for this left wing liberal rubbish
Sorry, but I disagree. I may be a member of the Conservative party and not left wing, but it seems to me that half the country call the media a bunch of liberals and the other half call it right wing just because they disagree with it.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentis...vast-rightwing-conspiracy-media-clinton-obama
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/media/is-the-bbc-really-left-wing-552929.html

What exactly is left wing though? Is it broadcasting scientific facts such as climate change or other facts such as how our landfill sites are being filled up so we have to start recycling? Is it programmes and column inches about how we should respect each other and not kill people because they have a different skin colour? What about programmes about evolution rather than creationism (which is not allowed to be taught outside of RE in religious schools)? IMO it's neither of those.

There is very little on TV that could perhaps be classed as left wing or right wing as politics programmes make up a tiny percentage of overall programming and anything inbetween is merely opinion or fact.
 

Swift-Deere

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Ok maybe its more liberal than a left wing organisation

even Andrew Marr said:
"The BBC is not impartial or neutral. It's a publicly funded, urban organisation with an abnormally large number of young people, ethnic minorities and gay people. It has a liberal bias not so much a party-political bias. It is better expressed as a cultural liberal bias",

To me the people described in this are not what i would say to be the mainstream of the UK population!!!
 

Old Timer

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I think, old chap, that Swift-Deere was referring to the Political leanings of the BBC, which will become more appaarant as the weeks roll on.

There are many interviewers, as well as senior members of the Management team who are well known to be Labour sympathisers, supporters, donors, or are in position through Political preferrment.

I don't fully subscribe to the partisan belief that the whole BBC is a Left Wing organisation, but there are clear examples within the Political dept where the bias is very clearly towards Labour.

An example was the last local elections where despite every other TV channel having posted the total Conservative gains, the BBC did not update theirs for many hours.

Looking at the Party Conferences now, last week's Labour Conference and the week leading up to it saw Interviews and analysis from Labour supporters and MPs. This week the analysis of the Conservative Conference is restricted to ......Labour MPs and left wingers like Toynbee for example.

She has the gall to speak as she does about social matters and fairness whilst working for a newspaper which employs staff on short term Agency Contracts in order to avoid pension contributions and staff benefits.

I wonder how the BBC would have reacted to the news that a Conservative MP had crashed their car whilst using a mobile phone, and then driven off, without even notifying the Police as the car owner was not present ? The answer is that it has been quietly shunted (pardon the unintentional pun) to the background.

I suspect it is this sort of bias that Swift-Deere was meaning ?
 
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Swift-Deere

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I suspect it is this sort of bias that Swift-Deere was meaning ?
Yes that what i mean as far as politics is conserned

but the BBC have a cultre of if you don't follow what they define to be normal in terms of culture (e.g. music, hobbies) your a nutter, the bbc is also anti America and anti israel and the organasation is londoncentric and urban based they cant see that not everyone lives in london or city!!!!
 

Aictos

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A lot of money could be made by closing a lot of the quangos that have made quite a lot of money under Labour.

Not to mention certain local authority figures being on more money then the PM, does it really cost that much more to run a council then to run a nation?

Then you have the gold plated pensions of the civil service which should in the interests of fairness be treated the same as other plundered pensions.

With the money saved, it should be ring fenced for our armed forces firstly as it a national disgrace for our troops to go into action without proper equipment and a even bigger one to see American forces with the latest equipment.

The sooner these cuts are made, the better then we can start rebuilding this country.

Anyway, come 2010 I will certainly be toasting the Labour party and Brown in particular for a Cameron victory, :D
 

jon0844

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Yes, people don't win elections - they lose them. New Labour cannot get back from this one!

The Sun may claim to be responsible for the election result, but they simply new Labour will lose and couldn't back the losing team - which would happen either way.

Of course, changing allegiance is going to be seen as the final nail in the coffin and will influence some, but I honestly believe that it would happen regardless.
 

me123

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I'm sure we'll be paying for Labour's failings for years to come. They've mismanaged the economy, they've mismanaged themselves and they've created a parliament that has pushed the public further away; at no other time have people been so angry with the way the country's being run, and this will show in the polls.

There is no doubt in my mind that they will stimulate the Act of Union (Abolition) Act in one way or another, there is no doubt in my mind that Cameron will be no better, there is no doubt in my mind that in 10 years, we'll still feel the effects of Gordon's mismanagement of the UK, and there's no doubt in my mind that in 20 years time, Gordon will still be wondering why we didn't support him.
 

asylumxl

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The British people like to blame their governments for problems. They haven't the capacity to realise they are to blame. After all, the government is only there to "represent" the people, supposedly. It's no surprise the politicians do as they please if the people do not make a real effort to oppose them.

You cannot win with the British voters. Let's just say a constituency feels their area has been run down and is in need of investment. To make improvements requires money. Money can't be plucked from the air, so taxes need to be increased or spending cuts need to be made elsewhere. This in turn causes the voters to complain about the increase in taxes, and NOTHING ever gets done.

That's why Britain has fallen behind other countries in so many fields.
 

Old Timer

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Here is a link to a pan-EU Petition to stop Bliar.

Stop Bliar as EU President

On a slightly different note I hear the name of Mary Robinson (the former Irish President and EU Commissioner for Human Rights) is being mentioned quite a lot with regards to the EU Presidency.

I understand the Irish are more swayed towards her than a failed Politician who took Irish Citizenship in a cynical ploy to use them to stepstone his way into a senior EU post.
 

Dai.

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More news on Mr. Blair, apparently there is something else in the wings he is working on 'Tony Blair Associates' world leader advice service or something.
 

Mojo

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More news on Mr. Blair, apparently there is something else in the wings he is working on 'Tony Blair Associates' world leader advice service or something.
Has someone been watching Have I Got News for You? ;)
 

Old Timer

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More news on Mr. Blair, apparently there is something else in the wings he is working on 'Tony Blair Associates' world leader advice service or something.
Illegal wars, patronage, and personal agrandishment a speciality.

You can just imagine the some of the staff roll call cant you.

Bliar - How to survive by smoke and mirrors
The Bliar Witch - Defending those who pose a threat and Free Holiday Adviser
Mandy - Dealing with returns to "Office"
"Charlie" Falconer - Emasculation of Legal system
"Ali" Campbell - Advising on how to win friends and influence people
Bernie Ecclestone - Managing Donations
Lord Irvine - Wallpaper and Interior Decoration
Margaret Beckett - Agricultural destruction and Air Miles advice
Tessa Jowell - Mortgage adviser
Jo Moore - Press Liaison and how to bury bad news
Derek Draper - Effective Lobbying, smearing and website management
Ron Davies - Badger watching and other "Green Issues"
John Prescott - Fleet Management, Healthy Eating, Internal Affairs and Crocquet

I feel quite ill now !
 

jon0844

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Tony Blair has been planning for this for years.. and it was talked about many years ago about his desire to be president of Europe.

He's also been doing the speeches and other appearances for good money since he stepped down - so that's nothing new.

Tony Blair has simply been looking out for himself since 1997 and probably long before, and I guess we should commend him.. shame he had power to do so much for so long in order to get what he wanted.

Isn't that what politics is like now though? Powerful people with their own agendas? Look at the leaders around the world for other prime examples.
 

Kneedown

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Here is a link to a pan-EU Petition to stop Bliar.

Stop Bliar as EU President
Duly signed with the greatest of pleasure!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
The British people like to blame their governments for problems. They haven't the capacity to realise they are to blame. After all, the government is only there to "represent" the people, supposedly. It's no surprise the politicians do as they please if the people do not make a real effort to oppose them.

You cannot win with the British voters. Let's just say a constituency feels their area has been run down and is in need of investment. To make improvements requires money. Money can't be plucked from the air, so taxes need to be increased or spending cuts need to be made elsewhere. This in turn causes the voters to complain about the increase in taxes, and NOTHING ever gets done.

That's why Britain has fallen behind other countries in so many fields.
Whilst it is true that people get the government that they vote for, you cannot deny that this lot ride roughshod over every wish of the electorate including the misguided one's who voted them in. The promised referendum on the Lisbon treaty is one example.

Sadly, these days, it's a case of parties losing elections rather than parties winning them.
 

TrainBrain185

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More news on Mr. Blair, apparently there is something else in the wings he is working on 'Tony Blair Associates' world leader advice service or something.
"Every little helps"......
T=Tony's
E=European
S=Supremo
C=Challenge
O=Organisation
Always wondered why he raided Iraq and Afghanistan? Hell no, it was not oil after all!!! ;)
 
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