Tops

[Growler]

How does one get information for TOPS? is there a website?
merry Christmas to all
Growler

 

[ralphchadkirk]

How does one get information for TOPS? is there a website?
merry Christmas to all
Growler

TOPS is an internal Railway system, inaccessible unless you are required to have access to it. Same goes for TRUST.

 

[12CSVT]

Even if you work for the railway you'd be lucky to access TOPS

 

[Hydro]

Even if you work for the railway you'd be lucky to access TOPS

Depends what part. I just asked. TRUST is handy to check running in real time, and keep on top of any delays. With TOPS comes TRUST, certainly in my part of the world.

 

[ralphchadkirk]

Depends what part. I just asked. TRUST is handy to check running in real time, and keep on top of any delays. With TOPS comes TRUST, certainly in my part of the world.

Lucky b*gger! Working for Network Rail must have its advantages! I know that the person who runs Freightmaster couldn't get on it, despite being sponsored by GBRf (I think).

 

[GB]

Depends what part. I just asked. TRUST is handy to check running in real time, and keep on top of any delays. With TOPS comes TRUST, certainly in my part of the world.

Yes they are both part of the same system but it depends on what your log in credentials are.

For example some logins are for TRUST only and do not allow access to TOPS.

However if you can log in to TOPS then you will be able to login to TRUST.

 

[DiscoStu]

I used to go into the office at Rugby station and speak to a lovely old fella called Ted. I was only about thirteen at the time (It was the late 80's), but he used to let me run my own queries from his TOPS computer to find out where the loco's I wanted were.

There was also a programme called AB ROAR, which listed the whereabouts/workings of all class 81/85's.

Sorry to hijack the thread - I just got a bit nostalgic

 

[12CSVT]

I used to go into the office at Rugby station and speak to a lovely old fella called Ted. I was only about thirteen at the time (It was the late 80's), but he used to let me run my own queries from his TOPS computer to find out where the loco's I wanted were.

There was also a programme called AB ROAR, which listed the whereabouts/workings of all class 81/85's.

Sorry to hijack the thread - I just got a bit nostalgic

No need to apologise at all - many of us enjoy reading the happy memories when we could do things like that !

 

[Growler]

OK its difficult to get to TOPS or TRUST, So how do we get info on whats running and when?. I'm pretty new to this stuff so please bear with me!!

 

[DarloRich]

TOPS is an internal Railway system, inaccessible unless you are required to have access to it. Same goes for TRUST.

And almost indecipherable even if you DO have access!

 

[Urban Gateline]

OK its difficult to get to TOPS or TRUST, So how do we get info on whats running and when?. I'm pretty new to this stuff so please bear with me!!

Depends what you want to find out, you can look at TOC's own websites and browse timetables and live running information from there.
Or you can use National Rail Enquiries live departure information here

Naturally none of this will be as detailed as TOPS or TRUST, for good reason though.

 

[transportphoto]

Practically, for most, if you want to find out what is running what you go and stand on a platform yourself and find out (or) ask someone else to do so for you!

Thats the way to do it I'm afraid if you haven't got access to the internal systems!

TP

 

[142094]

OK its difficult to get to TOPS or TRUST, So how do we get info on whats running and when?. I'm pretty new to this stuff so please bear with me!!

You need to buy a subscription to Freightmaster, join a Yahoo gen group or stand on the platform. Although some people will give out info on special services and charters, for the normal freight movements you need to look on one of those.

 

[12CSVT]

For gen about unusual workings you could join Rail-gen

mailto:[email protected]

 

[Growler]

Thanks guys, youve been a real help.

 

[46100ROYALSCOT]

There are far more academically qualified then myself on this Forum, would it not be possible to enlist them to lobby the powers that be for access to the likes of TOPS or TRUST, maybe with a small payment, after all you can see the moments of 90% of Aircraft that fly in the UK on the likes of this site http://www.radarvirtuel.com/ and the majority of shipping here http://www.marinetraffic.com/ais/de....461683&centery=51.29057&zoom=10&type_color=7
Surely the moving of freight trains cant be that business sensitive, after all the likes of Freightmaster and Freightlocate along with dozens of Groups seem to be able to print diagrams for locomotive workings. Come on you cleaver chaps lets get things moving for the New Year.

that should get you going.

I wait in hope!!!!!!!!:cry:

 

[ralphchadkirk]

Because they are private, secure, antiquated and very difficult to use programs.

 

[46100ROYALSCOT]

Because they are private, secure, antiquated and very difficult to use programs.

I would have thought the Aircraft and Shipping details where private at one stage but they are in the public domain now, as for antiquated well I'm antiquated! and you say "very difficult to use". The first time I turned on a computer 20 odd years ago that was very difficult to use it didn't take long to acquire the skills to use one, are you saying everyone who works on the railway with access to TOPS or TRUST are computer programming whizz kids?. OK so don't give it to all and sundry but whats wrong with the likes of Freightmaster / Freightlocate getting the use of it and letting us subscribe for access. I only want to type in a loco number and find it's location, is that so difficult?

 

[davelew99]

It's quite different, both the AIS (for shipping) and aircraft transponder systems have well documented standards, the information is broadcast by the ship/aircraft and anyone with a suitable receiver can get the data, decode and present (which is how websites like Marine Traffic work).

Since the data on TOPS is private and not broadcast, an enthusiast can't just listen and publish the data.

 

[Smudger105e]

and you say "very difficult to use". The first time I turned on a computer 20 odd years ago that was very difficult to use it didn't take long to acquire the skills to use one, are you saying everyone who works on the railway with access to TOPS or TRUST are computer programming whizz kids?

TOPS is not a user friendly system at all, it is code driven. For example, to find loco's preassigned to a depot, you would have to input a sequence like LC D03 2 ; 87238 (This enquiry wont work because the last difgits are for Eastleigh, and the regional numbers are for another area of the country.

To stop a loco you would have to input

xx
06 67099 x 10002512 a xam 222912 (XX would have to be replaced by the correct code letters)

So not self explanatory at all.

 

[ralphchadkirk]

are you saying everyone who works on the railway with access to TOPS or TRUST are computer programming whizz kids?

Not computer programmers, but I'm told there's a two week training course for TOPS operators.

 

[46100ROYALSCOT]

I appreciate that TOPS may not be the easiest of programmes to use. I have seen at a few stations staff operating a computer console which I assumed was TOPS, I asked a Staff member at a large Manchester Station if a particular train was running he went into his office inviting me in and he looked up the working for me, I cant recall what he did step by step but it didn’t seem that difficult. Was he not using a TOPS machine, how did he get the information for me?

Are train and loco diagrams so sensitive that we cannot have access, is the rail industry going to collapse if the likes of Freightmaster or Freightlocate offer a service to us rail enthusiasts which would allow us to print correct and up to date daily working and loco diagrams? Freightmaster do a good job however it’s impossible for them to keep bang up to date with train movements.
I would pay for the info (within reason) and I guess many others would as well.

Apart from the Royal Train what trains are so special / sensitive that DB, DRS, Freightliner or the other operators don’t want each other to know about? I see diagrams for the nuclear trains so they cant be very secret.

You guys that work on the railways know and possibly contribute to Rail Groups, are you trying to tell me that the powers that be are not a wear of what’s going on, I should think quite a few of the bosses are rail enthusiasts and may well pass on some TOPS reports to rail groups.

 

[33056]

TOPS is not a user friendly system at all, it is code driven. For example, to find loco's preassigned to a depot, you would have to input a sequence like LC D03 2 ; 87238 (This enquiry wont work because the last difgits are for Eastleigh, and the regional numbers are for another area of the country.

To stop a loco you would have to input

xx
06 67099 x 10002512 a xam 222912 (XX would have to be replaced by the correct code letters)

So not self explanatory at all.

Too true.

I was an AOC for a time back in the 1990s but was never given any formal training beyond spending a couple of shifts with a TOPS clerk; the first time we had a loco failure I managed to stop the thing for an "F" exam rather than a mere failure in traffic

 

[Hydro]

I appreciate that TOPS may not be the easiest of programmes to use. I have seen at a few stations staff operating a computer console which I assumed was TOPS, I asked a Staff member at a large Manchester Station if a particular train was running he went into his office inviting me in and he looked up the working for me, I cant recall what he did step by step but it didn’t seem that difficult. Was he not using a TOPS machine, how did he get the information for me?

Are train and loco diagrams so sensitive that we cannot have access, is the rail industry going to collapse if the likes of Freightmaster or Freightlocate offer a service to us rail enthusiasts which would allow us to print correct and up to date daily working and loco diagrams? Freightmaster do a good job however it’s impossible for them to keep bang up to date with train movements.
I would pay for the info (within reason) and I guess many others would as well.

Apart from the Royal Train what trains are so special / sensitive that DB, DRS, Freightliner or the other operators don’t want each other to know about? I see diagrams for the nuclear trains so they cant be very secret.

You guys that work on the railways know and possibly contribute to Rail Groups, are you trying to tell me that the powers that be are not a wear of what’s going on, I should think quite a few of the bosses are rail enthusiasts and may well pass on some TOPS reports to rail groups.

I'd say it's more to do with controlling access to TOPS because you don't want anyone poking around changing things. It's old but still an important system.

To make the information public for spotters, someone will have to take all that information and update it through an externally viewable programme, one that is easy to read and user friendly. That's not going to happen, if anything because a company doesn't want to pay a TOPS clerk to additionally mess around giving out information that's not relevant to their business. The likes of DBS and Freightliner want TOPS clerks to keep the locations, allocations and status of stock updated for efficient running of their business, not to then make sure some spotters can also see this - it's extra, unnecessary work.

I use TRUST more than TOPS, to keep real time tabs on a train I'm working, and more importantly to keep track of any incidents causing delays. This way I have the most information at hand possible to hammer out a recovery/cancellation plan via TRUST, Control and local signalboxes.

 

[driver9000]

I appreciate that TOPS may not be the easiest of programmes to use. I have seen at a few stations staff operating a computer console which I assumed was TOPS, I asked a Staff member at a large Manchester Station if a particular train was running he went into his office inviting me in and he looked up the working for me, I cant recall what he did step by step but it didn’t seem that difficult. Was he not using a TOPS machine, how did he get the information for me?

That will be TRUST rather than TOPS or it may have been the staff version of Live departures. I have little experience of working TRUST apart from calling up a stopping pattern to print off when a schedule card isn't available for me to take and baffling is a word I'd use. I understand it to be a read only and watered down version of TOPS. TOPS and TRUST aren't viewable using an internet browser as it is an internal system.

 

[Minilad]

That will be TRUST rather than TOPS. I have little experience of working TRUST apart from calling up a stopping pattern to print off when a schedule card isn't available for me to take and baffling is a word I'd use. I understand it to be a read only and watered down version of TOPS. TOPS and TRUST aren't viewable using an internet browser as it is an internal system.

A watered down version of trust is available on line if you have a log in via two separate routes

 

[lancastrian]

Well I was given two days training on TOPS in the mid 1970's while I was working on the Railway at Bolton. We still had the Halliwell Good Depot at that time, and along with the Parcels traffic it was quite well used. To me it seemed to be an over complicated system to do something that was a basic railway need.

It was bought from the USA, the Southern Pacific Railroad, if my memory serves my right. It was to some degree over complicated, especially if you needed wagons that you had already in one siding (usually 16ton mineral wagons, emptied of coal from the Power Station near Halliwell Goods) and you needed them in the scrap sidings for metal to be sent off to Sheffield. If you did not put a claim in for them, the system would send your wagons off to some other place, miles away and would send you wagons from quite a distance away.

I discovered a way of claiming the wagons we already had, saving time and money, was I congratulated. No chance, I was told that I was messing up the system. When I replied that it was a daft system, I was told it was none of my bussiness. As I was far from a retiring person, I contacted someone higher up and told them what I thought of the system and its failings. I am not sure what happened after that as I left the railway soon after this incident, to a better paid job in the print industry. I was not fired, I had already lined this new job up, because I could see that both goods and parcels were on the decline.

But it major problem was it had been developed for an Ammerican Railroad, not for British Rail, as usuall with any systen developed for one company, it didn't work well for a different company. I was told that it has improved over the years, to be honest it couldn't really get much worse.

 

[142094]

I have been told in a work situation by a TOC that operates in the Leeds area that they were unwilling to give out diagrams due to commercial sensitivity. However, of course you can stand on a platform and find out what is running.

 

[The Planner]

Historic TOPS is like gold dust, there are only a few amongst our lot that have it. You can pull a consist on something that is running that day from TRUST but once you are a couple of days after and need to know the tonnage or length of something you get stuck.

 

[GB]

That will be TRUST rather than TOPS or it may have been the staff version of Live departures. I have little experience of working TRUST apart from calling up a stopping pattern to print off when a schedule card isn't available for me to take and baffling is a word I'd use. I understand it to be a read only and watered down version of TOPS. TOPS and TRUST aren't viewable using an internet browser as it is an internal system.

TRUST and tops complement each other rather than one being a watered down version of another. They are both used for different purposes and both can wreak havoc if one were to mess about in either system without knowing what they are doing.

There is an updated GUI version of tops called TOPS2000, but even this is not user freindly if you dont know what you are doing.