Touching out with an Oyster not possible

[Trainfan344]

Hello, while visiting London with my Oyster Card recently, I touched in at Liverpool street station to travel round to Tower Hill, However, when I got to Tower Hill, the barriers were open and so I couldn't touch out meaning I got charged extra meaning I had to put more credit on the oyster the next day for the final leg of my journey. I'm not fussed with this as the loss was <£2, but the question is this, What can I do in future to avoid being charged extra?

 

[dave4jackie]

you can still touch out with the gates open

 

[louis97]

Did you try to Touch Out? Just because the barriers are open doesn't mean the Oyster readers won't work. In future touch out even if the barriers are open.

 

[londonbridge]

I don't understand. Even if the barriers were open what was physically preventing you from touching your card on the reader pad? If the gates are open you can still touch in and out as normal.

 

[CatfordCat]

Generally speaking, as others have said, if you pass an Oyster reader you should touch out even if the barriers are open - or at many suburban national rail stations, where there isn't a barrier at all

I can't speak for what happened at Tower Hill this week, but I am aware that there are occasions where an additional exit will get opened for safety reasons to avoid a crush inside the station, and people will get sent through an exit without an Oyster reader.

I have heard of this happening around the Notting Hill Carnival, for example - I know Tower Hill has been under pressure the last few weeks.

This page on TfL website seems to suggest it will get sorted out when you next touch in.

Failing that, I suggest a visit to an underground ticket office or a call to TfL customer services.

 

[Daniel]

On LU, reversible standard width gates have the following settings:

Open - Paddles opened, with Oyster readers active on the side they were last serving
Closed - Paddles closed, with Oyster readers at red on both sides.
Entry - Paddles closed, with Oyster readers active on the entry side.
Exit - Paddles closed, with Oyster readers active on the exit side.
EMO (Emergency Open) - paddles open, with oyster readers active on the exit side.

On WAG (wide isle gates), there is an additional setting-
FCFS (First Come First Served) - Paddles closed, with oyster reader activity switching from one side to another, to serve both sides but without letting two people through at once in different directions.

There is also the ability to switch the gate off, (often described as a 'hard reset'), but that would usually be done to only 1 gate at a time and that gate would be blocked by a member of staff serving it. There would be no light on the oyster reader or the gate display with the gate 'hard off'.

Usually, when gates are opened for crowd control purposes, (to avoid delay when exiting), when not in an emergency situation, (like a station evacuation, where EMO would be used), the gate array would be on 'Open', (having been in 'Exit' prior), with paddles opened and oyster readers active on the exit side.

As others have suggested, it would have been likely that you could have touched out - that said, mistakes do happen. I am unsure about the automatic measures now implemented as I am not working on station side anymore; however I am sure a call to the OCC or a visit to a ticket office would be able to get this rectified.

 

[CyrusWuff]

On LU, reversible standard width gates have the following settings:

EMO (Emergency Open) - paddles open, with oyster readers active on the exit side.

Usually, when gates are opened for crowd control purposes, (to avoid delay when exiting), when not in an emergency situation, (like a station evacuation, where EMO would be used), the gate array would be on 'Open', (having been in 'Exit' prior), with paddles opened and oyster readers active on the exit side.

It's possible it's different on LU and NR gates, but I thought the Oyster readers were disabled on both sides if the EMO is operated, so that a potential evacuation situation isn't delayed by people trying to touch out?

 

[Weary Walker]

When I went to Tower Hill to see the poppies at the Tower (first week in November) the instructions being called out by staff at the exit were clear.

Paper tickets straight through, oyster still needed to be touched out.

The exits were all open, but as we still went through the gates we were next to the reader.

 

[ert47]

On LU, reversible standard width gates have the following settings:

Open - Paddles opened, with Oyster readers active on the side they were last serving
Closed - Paddles closed, with Oyster readers at red on both sides.
Entry - Paddles closed, with Oyster readers active on the entry side.
Exit - Paddles closed, with Oyster readers active on the exit side.
EMO (Emergency Open) - paddles open, with oyster readers active on the exit side.

Im not sure whether its the same with NR and LU gates, but it is possible to set the gates to closed while the paddles are open - disabling the readers on both sides.

@OP: By any chance, were the paddles open towards or away from you?

 

[Mojo]

It's possible it's different on LU and NR gates, but I thought the Oyster readers were disabled on both sides if the EMO is operated, so that a potential evacuation situation isn't delayed by people trying to touch out?

A software update to stop this happening on LU gates was brought out a few years ago.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

@OP: By any chance, were the paddles open towards or away from you?

Tower Hill station has separate 'entry' and 'exit' ticket halls[1] and the gates in the 'exit' ticket hall only go one way. http://www.directenquiries.com/images\LUPhotos.2008\285\Photos\2008-10-30-40497.jpg

[1] Although there is usually one or two gates for exit in the 'entry' ticket hall, it is not signed from platform level as being available for exit.

 

[Trainfan344]

I tried to touch out and it flashed red, All I heard was "straight out", so I did attempt to touch out, but it didn't accept it, so I presume that the reader was set to reject oysters.

 

[anme]

I can't comment on Tower Hill, but I have seen ticket gates open and Oyster readers not working at an NR station. There were no staff (visibly) present and a high-pitch alarm was sounding.

I entered at this station, and was let out at my destination after a lecture about how I should have bought a paper ticket in these circumstances. I have no idea if that is right (it would have been more expensive and I'd probably already reached the price cap for the day). I had followed instructions and tried to touch in, which had no visible effect, but I'd only recently got the card and wasn't sure what was supposed to happen.

Contact the Oyster helpline, by phone or e-mail, and you will get a refund.

 

[Trainfan344]

Like I say not bothered about the refund for it as it was nearly a month ago now, but what with another london trip on the horizon in the new year was just wondering what to do incase it happens again.

 

[MikeWh]

I can't comment on Tower Hill, but I have seen ticket gates open and Oyster readers not working at an NR station. There were no staff (visibly) present and a high-pitch alarm was sounding.

I entered at this station, and was let out at my destination after a lecture about how I should have bought a paper ticket in these circumstances. I have no idea if that is right (it would have been more expensive and I'd probably already reached the price cap for the day). I had followed instructions and tried to touch in, which had no visible effect, but I'd only recently got the card and wasn't sure what was supposed to happen.

Contact the Oyster helpline, by phone or e-mail, and you will get a refund.

I've had the same situation at London Bridge SE platforms without the high pitched alarm. I certainly wouldn't buy a paper ticket in those circumstances and I'll assist anyone who gets into a similar situation. Oyster is an acceptable method of payment as long as you have enough credit so it is the railways problem if you can't use it.

 

[John @ home]

Like I say not bothered about the refund for it as it was nearly a month ago

An Oyster refund is available for 8 weeks from date of travel. I have found the telephone helpline very helpful.

 

[Hadders]

I've been to Tower Gateway a couple of times over the last few weeks. It was very busy both times because of the poppies.

On both occasions the gates were open to aid the flow of passengers exiting the station. There were staff making announcements 'if you're travelling with Osyter touch out, paper tickets walk straight through'.

 

[jon0844]

In an emergency situation, won't people still try to touch out and potentially delay an evacuation? Even though it would obviously be easy to sort a problem out later and totally crazy to stand at a gate trying to tap out , how does LU deal with the fact that people will still do it?

 

[DelayRepay]

I imagine in an emergency situation they would announce (or shout!) that people should leave immediately.

TFL say:

Automatic completion of incomplete journeys

We recognise that there are times when you can't touch out as you leave a station, during a major sporting or entertainment event, for instance when we leave the gates open to help with congestion.

We also know that people can sometimes forget to touch out. When this happens, we'll also attempt to complete your journey.

If you're due a refund when we automatically complete a journey, we will send your refund to the station you use most often. It loads on to your Oyster card automatically when you next touch your card on a yellow card reader, as you enter or leave the station. Automatic refunds are issued a maximum of once every 28 days

https://www.tfl.gov.uk/fares-and-payments/oyster/using-oyster/incomplete-journeys

So the OP should contact the helpdesk - they may have a refund waiting for them at a tube station somewhere and if not the helpdesk are usually helpful and will arrange a refund (usually). Not sure how they'd actually give the refund if you're not planning to use the tube within 28 days though.

 

[IanD]

Not sure how they'd actually give the refund if you're not planning to use the tube within 28 days though.

They'll send a cheque or refund to a credit\debit card or transfer to a bank account.

 

[Mojo]

In an emergency situation, won't people still try to touch out and potentially delay an evacuation? Even though it would obviously be easy to sort a problem out later and totally crazy to stand at a gate trying to tap out , how does LU deal with the fact that people will still do it?

Unfortunately before the changes many people used to stand there, looking puzzled, constantly tapping their card (even though it had a red light), blocking the exit, asking questions of staff when trying to evacuate, and then trying to re-enter the station when their card had no credit for a bus trip. It's now seen as better to at least close off one journey (at a minimal fare) than have people messing around on the station when they are evacuating.

Also, the Emergency open function is also used to deal with crowding, not just evacuations, so in these cases it's best to get them out and not have to deal with the issues about unresolved journeys.

 

[edwin_m]

If your Oyster is registered online you will get a record of any uncompleted journeys and the opportunity to supply information on the actual journey made.

 

[rwebster]

I was at Temple shortly after The Lord Mayor's fireworks finished last Saturday. The instructions being given on entering the station were 'Do not put your ticket into the barrier, do not touch your Oyster card, keep moving' - I did actually try to touch in, but nothing happened (as far as I recall, the gate still had the green entry arrow lit). On alighting at Mansion House, the wide gate was opened as soon as those of us alighting got to it (presumably remotely from the control room - the one barrier assistant was manning the entry gates, which seemed to all be blocked whilst crowds subsided). Did wonder what'd happen if we'd carried on to somewhere out in Z6 having legitimately not touched in!