Tower block covered in green netting near London Bridge

[387star]

On the approaches to London Bridge shortly after the power station on the right hand side in direction of travel there is a tower block covered in green netting

Been like that for a considerable period of time. Awaiting demolition? Anyone know any more?

There is also a derelict building side between loughborough junction and elephant as well. A search reveals work was halted in 2015 and was set to recommence but the whole site is still abandoned and unfinished making a mockery of the housing crisis

 

[edwin_m]

The main railway offices in Glasgow were until fairly recently in Buchanan House, which was for several years covered in netting though blue in that case. The reason was that bits of the building were in danger of falling off and the netting would prevent injuries to people below.

 

[najaB]

A search reveals work was halted in 2015 and was set to recommence but the whole site is still abandoned and unfinished making a mockery of the housing crisis

There is no housing crisis.

There is an manufactured housing shortage designed to keep house prices artificially high since that makes homeowners "wealthy".

There are about 400,000 empty plots that already have planning permission and housing developers have banked enough land for a million or more new homes.

 

[AM9]

There is no housing crisis.

There is an manufactured housing shortage designed to keep house prices artificially high since that makes homeowners "wealthy". ...

And landlords!

 

[Busaholic]

There is no housing crisis.

There is an manufactured housing shortage designed to keep house prices artificially high since that makes homeowners "wealthy".

There are about 400,000 empty plots that already have planning permission and housing developers have banked enough land for a million or more new homes.

I know the point you're trying to make, but I'd respectfully say there is a housing crisis because those homes are not being built. It's a national crisis of a longstanding nature, dating from the late 1960s, with a slight alleviation for a few years in the early/ mid 1970s, and getting progressively worse since 1980 or so. It's not only the number of homes, it's the nature of them i.e. virtually no social housing being built, and those that are not usually by local authorities; sizing of homes not taking account of the typical size of households in 2019 and, in the case of private rented housing, the erosion of tenants' rights since the groundbreaking Rent and Housing Acts of the mid '70s.

 

[najaB]

I know the point you're trying to make, but I'd respectfully say there is a housing crisis...

For someone without a house or in poor quality accommodation it feels like a crisis, but the housing shortage is the result of deliberate and willful policy decisions.

The word 'crisis' is cynically put out there by those in powrt to make it sound like it's something that has happened to government, and that they have no control over.

 

[Meerkat]

Is there actually a shortage of houses, or just a shortage of houses to buy because of too much buy to let?

 

[najaB]

Is there actually a shortage of houses, or just a shortage of houses to buy because of too much buy to let?

There is a shortage of affordable, good quality housing to either buy or rent.

 

[Meerkat]

The price is high due to buy to let.
Building lots of houses makes little difference to house prices.

 

[najaB]

The price is high due to buy to let.
Building lots of houses makes little difference to house prices.

But buying to let (BTL) only makes financial sense when you are able to charge higher rent than your mortgage payments.

If a lot of cheap houses came into the market it would drop the bottom out of the BTL market. Which would (a) bring a second flood of cheap houses onto the market as BTL investors got out as quickly as possible; and (b) collapse the economy again.

 

[Meerkat]

But buying to let only makes financial sense when you are able to charge high rents.

Not necessarily when interest rates are so low and rates of return on other assets are so weak.
People are being forced to rent the houses they want to buy, outbid on buying by buy to let folk with easier access to funds.
Judging by my road there is then far less churn. Very few for sale signs these days, mainly to let ones.

 

[najaB]

Not necessarily when interest rates are so low and rates of return on other assets are so weak.

The rent has to be higher than the mortgage payments, or you need to be a cash buyer.

 

[Meerkat]

But the mortgage payments are only high because prices are high, and they are high because of the huge amount of investment money swilling around buying to let

Unfortunately I don’t know how you get buy to let out of the market without crashing the market (other than slowly obviously!)

 

[radamfi]

According to the Nationwide House Price Index calculator, in many regions of the UK, house prices have fallen in real terms over the last 10 years. In Scotland and the North of England, they have only gone up about 6% compared to the 30% CPI over that time. In Northern Ireland, they have fallen in actual cash terms.

 

[najaB]

According to the Nationwide House Price Index calculator, in many regions of the UK, house prices have fallen in real terms over the last 10 years.

The issue is that wages have also been stagnant for many over the same period so housing isn't more affordable.

 

[Strathclyder]

The main railway offices in Glasgow were until fairly recently in Buchanan House, which was for several years covered in netting though blue in that case. The reason was that bits of the building were in danger of falling off and the netting would prevent injuries to people below.

There was a fatal accident at that building in June 2012 when a mobile platform collapsed and fell over 90ft with two workers inside (they were removing said blue netting), killing one of them and seriously injuring the other. The manager of the plant hire firm that the platform came from was jailed for 2 years in January 2017 for health and safety breaches in relation to this terrible and totally avoidable incident.

More details here.

 

[JamesT]

But the mortgage payments are only high because prices are high, and they are high because of the huge amount of investment money swilling around buying to let

Unfortunately I don’t know how you get buy to let out of the market without crashing the market (other than slowly obviously!)

Do we really want buy-to-let out of the market? People will still need to rent, or even prefer to rent. If we don't have people buying houses to rent them out, where does the stock of rental properties come from?
I'd suggest that prices are high because demand is outstripping supply. The population has grown fairly significantly (5 million people in the last 15 years), but the increase in housing stock hasn't kept up. Either we reduce demand somehow (compulsory smoking to kill off the population? ), or build enough for the first time in decades which will naturally pull down the prices.

 

[DarloRich]

For someone without a house or in poor quality accommodation it feels like a crisis, but the housing shortage is the result of deliberate and willful policy decisions.

Correct. personally I would build more good quality council houses and use right to buy to keep funding the system. I think that would actually help the market by giving a good quality supply of starter homes to all people. A couple of years of rent to get yourself sorted then an opportunity to buy at a reduced rate subject to further occupancy and a profit share if you bail out early. In an ideal world we would go back to the founding principle of council housing estates with people of all levels mixing together to create better communities and living in good quality housing.

I know the point you're trying to make, but I'd respectfully say there is a housing crisis because those homes are not being built. It's a national crisis of a longstanding nature, dating from the late 1960s, with a slight alleviation for a few years in the early/ mid 1970s, and getting progressively worse since 1980 or so. It's not only the number of homes, it's the nature of them i.e. virtually no social housing being built, and those that are not usually by local authorities; sizing of homes not taking account of the typical size of households in 2019 and, in the case of private rented housing, the erosion of tenants' rights since the groundbreaking Rent and Housing Acts of the mid '70s.

Another good post.

BTW - It took me 7 years of saving to buy my house. It isnt easy and sacrifice is needed. I have little sympathy for those unwilling to do that. That was all my own money. No bank of mummy or daddy. I have a great deal of sympathy for people who are unable to save like that.

Not necessarily when interest rates are so low and rates of return on other assets are so weak.

The rent has to be higher than the mortgage payments, or you need to be a cash buyer.

both statements are correct. However the level of payment needed to service a mortgage is really quite low compared to rental value meaning there is profit to be made quite easily. The main difference is the BtL person tends to be able to buy with a smaller mortgage and do so more quickly than a first time buyer.

 

[radamfi]

Do we really want buy-to-let out of the market? People will still need to rent, or even prefer to rent. If we don't have people buying houses to rent them out, where does the stock of rental properties come from?
I'd suggest that prices are high because demand is outstripping supply. The population has grown fairly significantly (5 million people in the last 15 years), but the increase in housing stock hasn't kept up.

Similar arguments could have been made in the 1980s, yet there was an almighty property crash in the south. London prices took until 1998 to recover to the 1989 values in cash. CPI was 41% over this period. A return to normal interest rates would be sufficient to crash the market.

 

[Meerkat]

build enough for the first time in decades which will naturally pull down the prices.

I was surprised when I read about it (sorry didn’t keep a link) but even massive housebuilding programmes only reduce prices by 2 or 3%
The prices are high because there is so much investment money piling in.
Anecdotally quite a lot of lets aren’t BTL - mortgages are so cheap people move out without selling as they can easily cover the mortgage by renting out. A good whiff of price drops and/or interest rate rises and a lot of stock will come on the market.....possibly too much.

 

[HSTEd]

If you build enough houses even the foreign investors will be saturated and prices will drop.

 

[najaB]

If you build enough houses even the foreign investors will be saturated and prices will drop.

You don't even need to actually build them - a credible 'threat' of a drop in property prices would be enough to scare them away.

 

[Mojo]

But buying to let (BTL) only makes financial sense when you are able to charge higher rent than your mortgage payments.

Most buy to let mortgages are Interest only. I would suggest that the financial sense is that landlords later go on to sell the house for more than they paid for them.

Unfortunately I don’t know how you get buy to let out of the market without crashing the market (other than slowly obviously!)

I don't think buy to let is really an attractive proposition at the moment. If you consider it to be a problem, what the current Government has done appears to have already sorted it.

 

[najaB]

Most buy to let mortgages are Interest only. I would suggest that the financial sense is that landlords later go on to sell the house for more than they paid for them.

That's the hope. But there was a lot of hope prior to the 2008 financial crisis too!

 

[Meerkat]

There is simply no chance of building prices down - green belt and NIMBYs won’t allow enough t9 be built where they are needed in the utterly huge volumes that would require.
There probably aren’t enough brickies either!!

 

[najaB]

There is simply no chance of building prices down - green belt and NIMBYs won’t allow enough t9 be built where they are needed in the utterly huge volumes that would require.

There are approximately 500,000 plots that already have planning permission.

 

[Meerkat]

There are approximately 500,000 plots that already have planning permission.

And then......

 

[najaB]

And then......

I think you find half a million new houses coming on to the market would plummet prices. If not, there's brown belt sites for at least another million homes.

 

[James H]

The building referred to in the OP is called Maydew House.

More info here: http://www.haworthtompkins.com/work/maydew-house-and-bede-site-redevelopment

Maydew House is a 26-storey 1960s brutalist tower block, originally designed by London County Council’s Housing department under the directorship of Hubert Bennett. Adjacent to Southwark Park, it commands extensive views over the park, the River Thames and The City of London beyond. The regeneration project will upgrade the existing 144 scissor form dual aspect flats to modern standards and add five floors to the tower to create 24 new apartments.

 

[HSTEd]

There is simply no chance of building prices down - green belt and NIMBYs won’t allow enough t9 be built where they are needed in the utterly huge volumes that would require.
There probably aren’t enough brickies either!!

It is likely modern mass produced housing would follow commercial properties in abandoning field laid brickwork as a significant building material for this very reason.