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Discussion in 'Traction & Rolling Stock' started by absolutelymilk, 4 Apr 2017.
Will there be more than 1 service a day north of Newcastle?
Do you know how many roughly
Every hour eventually using class 802s
My reading of the Franchise requirement is 14 each way per day, but others may have more up to date information than me.
As I recall this is how the stock is supposed to be used:
Class 397 - Liverpool/Manchester - Glasgow/Edinburgh via West Coast Mainline
Class 802 - Liverpool/Manchester - Newcastle/Edinburgh via East Coast Mainline
Class 68 & Mark 5 - Liverpool/Manchester - Leeds/York/Scarborough and Middlesbrough
Class 185 (double formations) - Manchester - Hull/Cleethorpes/Huddersfield(?)
I'm not sure if i might have missed anything there.
Non-stop, according to RTT. http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/Y72201/2019/05/21/advanced
However, I'm not sure this is the last word, with other TOCs bidding for paths between Newcastle and Edinburgh.
This one is probably more of a training run before the regular service starts with 802s.
TPE are going to have one of the best services running south from Scotland once up and running then could certainly rival cross-country
Almost certainly! Will be nice to see some decent investment coming to the North with the new TPE rolling stock, I'll be more than glad to see the back of overcrowded 185's.
Looking forward to (hopefully) double formations on South Transpennine!
It’s a timetabled train and we already have crews who have signed the route for it from Newcastle to Edinburgh.
Yes, but what I mean is this one is probably not the final pattern for the hourly service north of Newcastle.
I'd expect some stops at Berwick at least, and maybe others.
The Liverpool train runs 4 minutes ahead of a Cross Country Northbound, and 4 minutes behind an LNER service southbound
Apologies for not being 100% au fait with TPE’s routes - but does the above mean the core Manchester-Leeds run will be done by 802s, 68/Mk5As and doubled 185s?
If so, that’s an interesting mix (and a huge capacity uplift)!
The Cleethorpes trains don't run via Leeds, so once all the new stock is in service the only TPE 185s running Manchester - Leeds should be on the hourly Hull services. But, yes, the others will be a mix of 802s and 68/5a sets.
Quite. Bearing in mind that if this is running with 185s for now they have a top speed of 100, whilst when the 802s eventually come in, they will have a top speed of 125.
I think I worked out a while ago that the current fleet comprises 197 carriages and that will increase to 303 once the new trains are introduced so yes, it should definitely be a huge capacity increase overall.
Thanks for the clarification.
Back on the 397. Is one out testing today from Crewe up to Carlisle and back? http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/P86009/2019/02/15/advanced
Something managed to leave Crewe 70 minutes late, and catch up the best part of 20 minutes by Carnforth on 350 (100mph) timings.
It gained another 30 minutes by not looping at Carnforth, then couple of minutes through the Lakes.
I know these are 125 MPH units, but thought the WCML was 110mph limit non-tilt. Have they upped the speed on the straighter sectons south of Lancaster, because it appears to me to be going about 23% faster than the timing load south of Carnforth and only about 10% faster north.
It has permission to use a lot of the EPS speed limits while they are testing. I spent some time on it yesterday at 120 mph and I was left wondering what the point of tilt was as the ride was perfectly acceptable.
There's easily twenty minutes of pathing allowances in that schedule from the look if it so I would assume most of the made up time came from that.
The units may be 125 capable but the WCML is still 110 only currently for non-tilt stock and beyond the occasional muttering of looking at raising it in specific locations there's no active plan that I'm aware of to do so.
No doubt it has to test the 10% overspeed?
There are plenty of short straight-ish bits of the WCML, but also plenty of sharp curves.
I somehow think that 125 without tilt in the Clyde valley and elsewhere is not going to work!
Much of the route between Oxenholme and Penrith has tilt limits well below 125 or even 110.
Over speed testing was done in Velim and it’s been well over 130mph and the testing this week has really been about checking the HSX pan under different types of overhead.
I don’t doubt there are places where tilt will offer some advantages but between Crewe and Carnforth it did make the blanket ban on non tilt doing more than 110 mph a bit excessive.
Plus the Manchester to Leeds skip-stopper, when/if the split at Huddersfield is undone.
So eventually the Leeds to Manchester via Huddersfield will have 6tph, 2tph of each of 185s, 802s and 68+mk5a.
I've always thought between Wigan and Preston they could easily do 125 , and between Preston and Milnthorpe (apart from Lancaster-Hest Bank/maybe Carnforth) . There's also a short section north of Penrith towards Calthwaite, north of Lockerbie to Murphat .All places where I reckon the 397s would be able to do 125mph without tilt. Whether Network Rail would permit this I don't know.
Isn't part of the problem the multiplicity of signs for drivers, with 3 levels already (PSR and potentially 2 levels of EPS for 390 and 221).
The current rule for the WCML is anything over 110 needs TASS (but they seem to allow 125 PSR Bushbury-Stafford).
I understand that. Maybe they kept the PSR limit at 110 because no other stock on the WCML was capable of over 110 other than 221s and 390s? All they'd need to do was raise the PSR limit above 110 for the sections they were cleared at, the. The same amount of signs would be needed.
The only way the stopper will be un-split at Huddersfield is if/when there's more overtaking options available. Ever since the DEC timetable change performance has increased significantly due to the split.
Back on topic, saw the 397 in the flesh yesterday - boy it's a fantastic looking train.
That's sensible, though I was under the impression that the plan was still to revert to 6tph through the core either in May or December 2019. I'll say no more though as it's off-topic!
Discussions back in 2017 referred to the track access being for hourly calls each way at Morpeth, with any others (eg Berwick) to be determined later.
The franchise agreement is 14 calls each way per day at Morpeth. It doesn't go into more detail than that, I don't think.