TPE Class 397 ('Nova 2') construction and updates

[JKF]

The working down for the above delivery - should be 37800 again.

Was 47813 and 57305 top and tail. Nice bit of noise from the Brush 4 in this YouTube (not mine)

RTT says this service was cancelled throughout, but yesterday it did show a typically late departure time of about 90 minutes later than planned and obviously it did move!

I saw the inbound working going along the Avon Gorge with the barrier wagons on Thursday afternoon. Interestingly, 47813 was leading on the inbound service and also is at the front on the YouTube video, so either there was a reversal somewhere on the return leg (Gloucester?) which might have justified the top and tail arrangement, or they did a fair bit of shunting around at Portbury.

If it’s not already been covered in this thread, what is the reason for the number of barrier coaches employed on this service (six!)?

 

[gimmea50anyday]

Brake force. The 397 hasn't yet been commissioned and therefore isn't braked so a through pipe is used and the 2 locos and barrier wagons provide the brake force required

 

[BMIFlyer]

TPE now has its first 397 in the fleet. Alstom will use it for training, then drivers will start on it in August.

 

[gimmea50anyday]

So that's now 4 Mk5, 1 397 and 2 802 now officially on TPEs books

 

[LittleAH]

4 802's now I believe.

 

[The Northern Star]

Virgin Trains are hoping to hire a 397 soon to carry out some tests.

 

[Plethora]

Virgin Trains are hoping to hire a 397 soon to carry out some tests.

As in actual Virgin Trains, or the managers who are in charge of running WCML operations after the next franchise award? I thought VT were being wound up after the franchise ends.

 

[Chester1]

As in actual Virgin Trains, or the managers who are in charge of running WCML operations after the next franchise award? I thought VT were being wound up after the franchise ends.

A Virgin Rail group subsidiary has applied for paths for a London-Liverpool open access service. The existing company that runs the franchise will be wound up but the parent company (Virgin Rail Group) will not be (yet). Maybe they are interested in ordering 397s if the new franchise holder does not replace any Pendolinos or Voyagers.

 

[Erniescooper]

A Virgin Rail group subsidiary has applied for paths for a London-Liverpool open access service. The existing company that runs the franchise will be wound up but the parent company (Virgin Rail Group) will not be (yet). Maybe they are interested in ordering 397s if the new franchise holder does not replace any Pendolinos or Voyagers.

I think Alstom was included in the open access application so the chances of them looking at CAF are slim.

 

[Chester1]

I think Alstom was included in the open access application so the chances of them looking at CAF are slim.

Good point!

 

[themiller]

But if it’s only a small order, perhaps opening a production line is not considered financially viable.

 

[absolutelymilk]

https://twitter.com/mikemcniven/status/1155096113654968320?s=19

Farewell @TPExpressTrains 350401 as it leaves for the last time bound for Bletchley for its new life with @LNRailway

Apparently the first TPE 350 has already left - does this mean the 397s are closer than thought to entering service or was this a contractual obligation that TPE couldn't get out of?

 

[GrimShady]

Can the 397s run at 125 to Liverpool without tilt?

 

[Plethora]

Apparently the first TPE 350 has already left - does this mean the 397s are closer than thought to entering service or was this a contractual obligation that TPE couldn't get out of?

I seem to remember reading that here are severe penalty clauses if they don't hand them over in time. This may be why they are so keen to get the Mark 5As into service.

 

[RealTrains07]

https://twitter.com/mikemcniven/status/1155096113654968320?s=19

Apparently the first TPE 350 has already left - does this mean the 397s are closer than thought to entering service or was this a contractual obligation that TPE couldn't get out of?

Not as far as i know. The 350/4s lease with TPE is up and since First isn’t gonna be renewing it they are going to abellio now gradually as the lease on each individual unit runs out.

If it happens quickly TPE will probs use 185s to cover untill the 397s are ready

 

[BMIFlyer]

Not as far as i know. The 350/4s lease with TPE is up and since First isn’t gonna be renewing it they are going to abellio now gradually as the lease on each individual unit runs out.

If it happens quickly TPE will probs use 185s to cover untill the 397s are ready

No free 185’s until some Mk5A sets enter traffic. The fleet is hard pushed enough as it is.

 

[a_c_skinner]

If it happens quickly TPE will probs use 185s to cover untill the 397s are ready

So cancellations and short formed trains because of inability to deliver new vehciles on time (or an over optimistic time scale) with passengers suffering because of profit and incompetence in equal measure.

 

[Spartacus]

So cancellations and short formed trains because of inability to deliver new vehciles on time (or an over optimistic time scale) with passengers suffering because of profit and incompetence in equal measure.

Sounds just like BR

 

[BeHereNow]

So cancellations and short formed trains because of inability to deliver new vehciles on time (or an over optimistic time scale) with passengers suffering because of profit and incompetence in equal measure.

Spot on. Don’t know why some people can’t see this. Except it’s not profit is it, more likely to be loss minimisation!

 

[LOL The Irony]

Can the 397s run at 125 to Liverpool without tilt?

Only if they go via Birmingham because of the stretch between Wolverhampton and Stafford that's 125.

 

[LOL The Irony]

I've created a thread to talk about the Virgin 397's here.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

A Virgin Rail group subsidiary has applied for paths for a London-Liverpool open access service. The existing company that runs the franchise will be wound up but the parent company (Virgin Rail Group) will not be (yet).

No franchise award has happened yet.
The DfT team has just been replaced, so who knows how the franchise award will go.
Meanwhile VT are running the show.

 

[hexagon789]

Can the 397s run at 125 to Liverpool without tilt?

Not currently. It was being looked at but I've heard mixed things about allowing them to run faster than 110 on certain EPS 125 sections. The latest I'd heard was it wasn't happening.

 

[supervc-10]

Are there any sections north of Liverpool/Manchester that could allow the TPE 397s to do 125?

 

[hexagon789]

Are there any sections north of Liverpool/Manchester that could allow the TPE 397s to do 125?

Do you mean presently or that could simply potentially support 125 without tilt?

 

[LOL The Irony]

Do you mean presently or that could simply potentially support 125 without tilt?

Warrington - Lancaster is the only section that could really support 125 without tilt.

 

[hexagon789]

Warrington - Lancaster is the only section that could really support 125 without tilt.

It really depends how they would authorise it, it is after all perfectly safe to run at all the EPS speeds without tilt enabled.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Warrington - Lancaster is the only section that could really support 125 without tilt.

Hardly.
South of Warrington to north of Wigan has no EPS at all (so 110 max for all traffic, less in places like Dallam, Winwick and Golborne which are 80/90).
Standish Jn to Farington Jn is fairly straight but there are kinks you just don't notice with tilt.
Preston-Lancaster has several curves which seem doubtful for 125.
There are a number of sections Oxenholme-north of Penrith which are limited to 80-90 even with EPS.
Scotland is fairly easy in the lowlands, but Beattock-Carstairs is very winding, and there is negligible EPS beyond there to Glasgow, and none to Edinburgh.

 

[59CosG95]

There are a number of sections Oxenholme-north of Penrith which are limited to 80-90 even with EPS.
Scotland is fairly easy in the lowlands, but Beattock-Carstairs is very winding, and there is negligible EPS beyond there to Glasgow, and none to Edinburgh.

Indeed - if you'd want to get 125mph over Shap, you may as well build a new alignment capable of speeds greater than that; a "Shap Base Tunnel", perhaps.

 

[Railperf]

Hardly.
South of Warrington to north of Wigan has no EPS at all (so 110 max for all traffic, less in places like Dallam, Winwick and Golborne which are 80/90).
Standish Jn to Farington Jn is fairly straight but there are kinks you just don't notice with tilt.
Preston-Lancaster has several curves which seem doubtful for 125.
There are a number of sections Oxenholme-north of Penrith which are limited to 80-90 even with EPS.
Scotland is fairly easy in the lowlands, but Beattock-Carstairs is very winding, and there is negligible EPS beyond there to Glasgow, and none to Edinburgh.

Best time recorded Carlisle to Glasgow is 64:43 for a Pendolino vs 67:00 for a Class 90 hauled train limited to 110mph.
Some years ago I recorded 68 mins aboard a late running Voyager with tilt isolated.
In the other direction it is 64:51 for the 390 and an equal 67:00 for Class 90 return.

So the time difference between tilt/non tilt amounts to 2 to 3 min.
The schedule for VTWC 390 is 67 mins Glasgow Central to Carlisle inclusive of 3 mins recovery - so a net 64 min!
In the return direction it tends to be around 69 to 70 mins but with 4 to 5 min recovery.
So the schedule appears to be tighter than what is generally achieved!