TPE Class 397 ('Nova 2') construction and updates

[hexagon789]

There should be some 397s in service by December and they should be put on the busiest diagrams. Even a couple in daily service would be very helpful.

Agreed, the TPE 350s are quite often fully loaded as 4-car, so the extra coach will be welcome on the busiest diagrams.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Agreed, the TPE 350s are quite often fully loaded as 4-car, so the extra coach will be welcome on the busiest diagrams.

Not just an extra coach, an extra 40m of train, so the rough equivalent of two Class 350 coaches.

 

[hexagon789]

Not just an extra coach, an extra 40m of train, so the rough equivalent of two Class 350 coaches.

Granted, though I can't remember exactly what the seating capacity is like in comparison, presumably two full Standard Class 350s coaches worth extra then?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Granted, though I can't remember exactly what the seating capacity is like in comparison, presumably two full Standard Class 350s coaches worth extra then?

It won't quite be that as the seating is lower density, being mostly window-aligned tables so more like a 185, there will still be a considerable increase though.

 

[hexagon789]

It won't quite be that as the seating is lower density, being mostly window-aligned tables so more like a 185, there will still be a considerable increase though.

I see the 397s are 22 First; 264 Standard, it's just the 350/4 figures I can't find.

 

[YorksDMU]

In answer to the seating on a 350/4, Platform5 states, 19 first, and 178 standard.

 

[hexagon789]

In answer to the seating on a 350/4, Platform5 states, 19 first, and 178 standard.

So nearly a 50% increase in Standard class accommodation.

 

[AM9]

So nearly a 50% increase in Standard class accommodation.

And 185s are 15 first and 167 standard, - a reduction of less than 10% standard seating capacity from the 350/4s.

 

[hexagon789]

And 185s are 15 first and 167 standard, - a reduction of less than 10% standard seating capacity from the 350/4s.

Which would probably be acceptable enough in the short term. I think it's that 4-car down to 3 sounds like a significant drop in seats, when actually it isn't

 

[Dave91131]

So nearly a 50% increase in Standard class accommodation.

And based on what I regularly witness, this will still leave tens if not hundreds unable to get a seat or in some cases even get on?

Loco + rake of mark 4 stock anyone?

 

[hexagon789]

And based on what I regularly witness, this will still leave tens if not hundreds unable to get a seat or in some cases even get on?

Loco + rake of mark 4 stock anyone?

I admit I've never seen how loadings are southwards, but I've never seen them as bad as you describe. Often pretty full - yes, but not to the point that hundreds can't get on.

 

[Dave91131]

I admit I've never seen how loadings are southwards, but I've never seen them as bad as you describe. Often pretty full - yes, but not to the point that hundreds can't get on.

Hundreds not being able to get on would be a rarity or even a non-occurrence, but I regularly see 20-30-40 standees per coach on a 350 with every seat taken.

What makes the situation worse for these trains is the sheer amount of luggage - on a Wednesday afternoon in June I witnessed circa 70-80 people alight at Oxford Road, after they had done so every vestibule and aisle was still full of a combination of standees and suitcases with circa 50-60 wanting to get on.

I don't know if there were other circumstances at play on this day which contributed to the extremely heavy loading but in the main I suspect replacing a 4-car 350 with a 5-car 397 will at best temporarily ease, but definitely not solve, the overcrowding and lack of luggage space.

 

[Bletchleyite]

350s have massive overhead racks (crikey, they'll take my 120 litre rucksack stuffed full, and there's barely any luggage bigger than that on the mainstream market), but they suffer, presumably, from the same issue the LNR ones do, in that people are just too lazy, bone idle and inconsiderate to put stuff up, or to help others put it up if they can't do it themselves, and would prefer instead to block doors and seats with it instead.

There's also no great weight issue with them - there are enough photos knocking around the Internet of people lying in said racks.

The only UK units with larger racks are the new CAF stock (which should help!) and Class 80x.

 

[MDB1images]

I admit I've never seen how loadings are southwards, but I've never seen them as bad as you describe. Often pretty full - yes, but not to the point that hundreds can't get on.

Never 100s left behind, even in the days last year of Northern never running Saturday services that didn't happen.

Like every TOC commuter time services are really busy part route in the rush hour.
At other times it can be really busy when events are on (Rugby at Murrayfield/Edinburgh Xmas market can cause crowding Lockerbie-Edinburgh, Manchester Christmas markets cause crowding Lancaster-Manchester etc)and during disruption.

As a rule of thumb the commuter busy services are:
From Oxford road to Preston usually the 16:10 & 17:10 Airport to Preston, 18:10 can have it's moments as well!
The 17:08 off Glasgow is busy with commuters going to Motherwell.
The 04:22 from Glasgow has some standing Preston to Manchester(07:47 at Preston)
Fridays afternoons and Sunday morning like every long distance TOC see busy trains, first two off Edinburgh in particular are very busy on a Sunday, possibly the busiest on the route as often full until Preston.

In terms of luggage so long as people bring the norm and the conductor manages the train well it's ok on Class 350s.

The Class 397s will be a huge help and much welcomed and it's good to see things moving as they become more familiar on the WCML on test/mileage/crew runs, won't be too long now.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Really they could do with not carrying commuters between Manchester and Preston, with an 8-car EMU running just behind for them.

 

[route101]

Never 100s left behind, even in the days last year of Northern never running Saturday services that didn't happen.

Like every TOC commuter time services are really busy part route in the rush hour.
At other times it can be really busy when events are on (Rugby at Murrayfield/Edinburgh Xmas market can cause crowding Lockerbie-Edinburgh, Manchester Christmas markets cause crowding Lancaster-Manchester etc)and during disruption.

As a rule of thumb the commuter busy services are:
From Oxford road to Preston usually the 16:10 & 17:10 Airport to Preston, 18:10 can have it's moments as well!
The 17:08 off Glasgow is busy with commuters going to Motherwell.
The 04:22 from Glasgow has some standing Preston to Manchester(07:47 at Preston)
Fridays afternoons and Sunday morning like every long distance TOC see busy trains, first two off Edinburgh in particular are very busy on a Sunday, possibly the busiest on the route as often full until Preston.

In terms of luggage so long as people bring the norm and the conductor manages the train well it's ok on Class 350s.

The Class 397s will be a huge help and much welcomed and it's good to see things moving as they become more familiar on the WCML on test/mileage/crew runs, won't be too long now.

Yep the been on he 1710 a few times , always busy . The 1910 is usually busy too . Do find with 350s that the seat reservations are in all coaches now . Getting to your seat can an issue at P14 at Picc . Ive heard of people going to airport and joining TPE services there .

 

[hexagon789]

Hundreds not being able to get on would be a rarity or even a non-occurrence, but I regularly see 20-30-40 standees per coach on a 350 with every seat taken.

What makes the situation worse for these trains is the sheer amount of luggage - on a Wednesday afternoon in June I witnessed circa 70-80 people alight at Oxford Road, after they had done so every vestibule and aisle was still full of a combination of standees and suitcases with circa 50-60 wanting to get on.

I don't know if there were other circumstances at play on this day which contributed to the extremely heavy loading but in the main I suspect replacing a 4-car 350 with a 5-car 397 will at best temporarily ease, but definitely not solve, the overcrowding and lack of luggage space.

I think it's like many newly introduced trains and services - 'build it and they will come'. It often proves to be the case that new services or trains become popular enough to significantly increase demand to the point that there isn't enough capacity and I can well see that being the case here.

 

[hexagon789]

The Class 397s will be a huge help and much welcomed and it's good to see things moving as they become more familiar on the WCML on test/mileage/crew runs, won't be too long now.

Lots of people are looking forward to these, myself included but we'll certainly see if TPE should've excercised the option for more units.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Lots of people are looking forward to these, myself included but we'll certainly see if TPE should've excercised the option for more units.

If there ends up being an order for the WCML that opportunity may well remain. Or failing that, I'm sure the 80x production line will be going for a good while yet.

 

[route101]

Lots of people are looking forward to these, myself included but we'll certainly see if TPE should've excercised the option for more units.

Looking forward too , though prefer airline seating when travelling alone , just me being petty . Hope theres enough airline seating

 

[hexagon789]

If there ends up being an order for the WCML that opportunity may well remain. Or failing that, I'm sure the 80x production line will be going for a good while yet.

Well now that Network Rail have confirmed the 397s will be permitted 125mph north of Preston from mid next year, 397s could certainly form part of a new fleet for the WCML.

 

[hexagon789]

Looking forward too , though prefer airline seating when travelling alone , just me being petty . Hope theres enough airline seating

There is a seating plan in this thread a few pages back, I think it there was a slight airline bias compared to the Mk5s which iirc have quite a high number of tables for modern stock.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Well now that Network Rail have confirmed the 397s will be permitted 125mph north of Preston from mid next year, 397s could certainly form part of a new fleet for the WCML.

I think 80x is more likely, but they are certainly an option and they look pretty good.

 

[hexagon789]

I think 80x is more likely, but they are certainly an option and they look pretty good.

For the bi-modes quite likely, but the straight electrics could well be 397s I think, though would they need to be longer?

 

[Entertexthere]

For the bi-modes quite likely, but the straight electrics could well be 397s I think, though would they need to be longer?

I would like to see more of these things, but wouldn't they be affected by 100-110mph running on parts of the WCML without a tilting mechanism?

 

[hexagon789]

I would like to see more of these things, but wouldn't they be affected by 100-110mph running on parts of the WCML without a tilting mechanism?

No specifics but Network Rail will be allowing them to run at 125mph north of Preston from next year.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

No specifics but Network Rail will be allowing them to run at 125mph north of Preston from next year.

Though presumably this won't be at all the locations where 125mph EPS speeds currently apply? There'll surely be some places where 125 is only possible with tilt?

 

[hexagon789]

Though presumably this won't be at all the locations where 125mph EPS speeds currently apply? There'll surely be some places where 125 is only possible with tilt?

I would think so, but I haven't seen any specific details of how it will be implemented or where.

 

[jhy44]

Does anyone have a link to officially publicised capacity figures for these?
It would be good to update the wikipedia, as at present it just gives the seating capacity:

Capacity 286 seats
(264 in standard, 22 in first class)

 

[hexagon789]

Does anyone have a link to officially publicised capacity figures for these?
It would be good to update the wikipedia, as at present it just gives the seating capacity:

Capacity 286 seats
(264 in standard, 22 in first class)

If you go back a few pages in this thread you'll find a seating plan. You could use that to confirm whether the Wikipedia figures are correct.