TPE Class 397

Discussion in 'Traction & Rolling Stock' started by absolutelymilk, 4 Apr 2017.

  1. driver9000

    driver9000 Established Member

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    The 397 software is future proof to allow them to be extended as 'plug and play' should it be authorised later. There is no crossover of work for train crew between mk5A and 397 fleets so the training of one type will not interfere with the training on another.
     
  2. LNW-GW Joint

    LNW-GW Joint Veteran Member

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    It's worth noting that the 397 procurement is the only TPE one which has enhancement options built into the franchise agreement (ie more/longer trains).
    It remains to be seen if DfT will ask TPE to acquire more units.
    Given that the franchise agreement was anticipating TP electrification during its term, it may not be invoked.
     
  3. SP Man

    SP Man Member

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    Freightliner Drivers already trained up on the 397s. Initial SPZ was planned to be between Stoke and Macclesfield but that may move location.
     
  4. whhistle

    whhistle Established Member

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    Why Class 397?
    Why not 361 (IE, carrying on from 360?) Or Class 351 (IE, carrying on from 350?)

    I always thought the higher 39x were for more "express" EMUs rather than local units?
     
  5. TBSchenker

    TBSchenker Member

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    397s are express units. So far away from the Class 350 ‘suburban’ units they are replacing. (The 350s were a tag-on to a London Midland order to get new EMUs quickly).
     
  6. LNW-GW Joint

    LNW-GW Joint Veteran Member

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    They are 125mph units, so as fast as anything you can see in GB off HS1.
    They lack tilt, though, so will only do 110mph on the WCML.
    Which begs the question as to where they will be tested at 125mph (+10% overspeed).
    There is one 10-mile stretch of the WCML passed for 125mph MU non-tilt - Bushbury to Rickerscote (Wolverhampton-Stafford).
     
  7. SP Man

    SP Man Member

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    Do not need to do the 10% over speed in UK. Permission is being sought (and expected to be granted) to use certain EPS speeds between Preston and Oxenholme.
     
  8. Railperf

    Railperf Member

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    Given the length of WCML likely to be used - it seems crazy that tilting EMU's were not ordered to protect capacity and slot in between Pendolino's without using up additional paths.
     
  9. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

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    The north WCML isn't full, and the 350s and 185s fit fine at 100mph let alone 110.
     
  10. LOL The Irony

    LOL The Irony Established Member

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    They could've ordered the Avelia Pendolino's that have recently come about.
     
  11. EE Andy b1

    EE Andy b1 Member

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    Would be very surprised if any tilting rolling stock is ever ordered again!
    HS2 classic compatible trains will be non-tilt.

    If they get Hybrid trains to replace Class 221, they would be non-tilt.
     
  12. Sleeperwaking

    Sleeperwaking Member

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    I agree - I think tilting trains have a lot of associated maintenance and reliability baggage (plus would be more expensive to design and manufacture), so there would need to be a clear benefit from getting the extra 15 mph. If you can have heavy freight using the WCML during the day, I can't see that limiting the 397 to 110 mph would pose too many problems in terms of paths.
     
  13. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

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    I'm inclined to agree. The Pendolino was right for its time, but once HS2 is built the WCML will be about slower, clockface-timetabled inter-regional trains and not about fast IC. I could even see a reduction to 110mph, to be honest.
     
  14. TBSchenker

    TBSchenker Member

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    Is there a reason why 397s need to be tested in a SPZ, whereas the CAF 331s seemed to do their first mainline testing straight off Edge Hill without a SPZ?
     
  15. BenW390Fan

    BenW390Fan Member

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    Maybe because it doesn't go as fast, I'm not too sure.
     
  16. Sleeperwaking

    Sleeperwaking Member

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    I suspect the Class 331s were tested in an SPZ first - if it was only one or two paths, it may not have been clocked by anyone on here. It's pretty standard for new EMUs to verify what the EM footprint looks like on NR infrastructure, in an attempt to ensure it won't wreak havoc with the signalling when let loose in traffic (although as can be seen from the IEP / ECML problems, SPZ testing won't necessarily pick up all potential issues).
     
  17. Sleeperwaking

    Sleeperwaking Member

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    Hahaha "inclined" - I see what you did there! :lol::lol::lol:
     
  18. Bertie the bus

    Bertie the bus Established Member

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    A 331 was dragged to St Helens Central in the dead of night a couple of times before mainline testing began.
     
  19. LNW-GW Joint

    LNW-GW Joint Veteran Member

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    These trains have been tested on the Velim test circuit - I don't know what the UK involvement was in this.
    Approvals are also supposed to be EU-wide. Thus NR should not be starting with a blank sheet of paper with the 397.
    If they are, it renders the EU TSI compliance worthless.
    I'm not sure what traction package the 397s use.
    The 331s (which must have a degree of approval to run in normal traffic) have TSA electrics (Traktionssyteme Austria).
    If 397s have the same package, it should make approval easier.
     
  20. EE Andy b1

    EE Andy b1 Member

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    20181216_223006.jpg

    TPE Class 397on Crewe LNWR today.
     
  21. joshy.fre_2003

    joshy.fre_2003 Member

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    Had it’s exterior displays on with coach letters when I passed on Saturday, as well as tail and headlights, not going anywhere of course.
     
  22. mallard

    mallard Established Member

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    Don't expect logic in the TOPS numbering system...

    Originally Cl370+ were "express" units (i.e. Cl370 APT, Cl373 Eurostar...) then we somehow ended up with Electrostars in the 375-9 range (presumably based on the numbering of the unbuilt networkers allocated 371?) and Desiros on 380 (why Desiros were allocated 3/4x0 instead of a more logical scheme such as 3/450-4 I don't know, presumably Siemens paid well for "marketing-friendly" numbering...). At this point, it would make much more sense for any new express EMU to be in the 8xx range.
     
  23. themiller

    themiller Member

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    Just to complicate matters, does anyone know what the European Vehicle Numbers (EVN) are for these trains?
     
  24. 43096

    43096 Established Member

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    AFAIAA it's only the car number that have EVNs allocated; the set numbers don't. Standard (i.e. not high-speed) vehicles will be 94 70 00nnnnn-x where nnnnn is the current car number and x is the check digit calculated in the usual way.

    Eurostar class 373 (refurbished) and 374 carry their EVN car numbers.
     
  25. Prestige15

    Prestige15 Member

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    A video of the 397 on test including at its top speed and stop/start.
     
  26. AndrewE

    AndrewE Established Member

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    Very nice, thanks for the video - it must have been cold taking it! I'm glad to see a cover over the front gubbins at last, it looks much better now.
    It's just a pity that TPE have got so few routes it can use them on.
     
  27. driver9000

    driver9000 Established Member

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    Nice video, pity it looks like its been vandalised when it passes at 1:34.
     
  28. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

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    It's a pity the Mk5s weren't based on these rather than the CS coaches, they are a metre and a bit longer per vehicle and have much bigger windows.
     
  29. Justapunter

    Justapunter Member

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    Yep. at 3:00 dead it's clear the entire rear car has been vandalised (and then it looks like some of the graffiti sprayed over with a beige spray as well).
     
  30. EE Andy b1

    EE Andy b1 Member

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    At Crewe with EVN. 20181216_123212.jpg
     

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