TPE franchise awarded to First

[jw]

Snippet from TransPennine news release:

• 44 brand new, state of the art 125 mph trains – equivalent to 220 carriages - running on cross-border services on the East Coast and West Coast Main Lines

• a new, direct Liverpool to Glasgow service from December 2018, with new electric trains additional services from Manchester to Glasgow and Edinburgh from December 2017, including stops at Motherwell, plus extra weekend services

• a new hourly service to Edinburgh from Newcastle, via Morpeth, extending the existing Liverpool to Newcastle service

 

[F Great Eastern]

The question is what are the trains that will be ordered by both?

 

[F Great Eastern]

Bearing in mind alstom have just announced a new factory in Widnes the odds must be pretty short on them.

 

[jw]

I'd imagine bi-mode 125mph 5 cars for TPE given wires not expected across the Pennines until 2022.

No indication yet of how the 281 carriages for Northern breaks down - wonder what proportion will be for the higher spec 'Northern Connect' v basic Pacer replacements.

 

[158801]

31 brand new 125mph trains equating to 155 carriages = 5 car trains !

There's also mention of 44 new train equating to 220 carriages = 5 car trains !

Do, will all TPE train be 5 carriages long in a few years time ?

 

[47802]

So 44 new 5 carriage 125mph trains for TPE (does that sound like AT300?) and 281 new carriages for Northern a substancial investment and one in the eye for the nay sayers and suggesting Pacers would be retained. TPE to go from a loss making franchise to profit and a substancial reduction on Northern.

 

[jw]

31 brand new 125mph trains equating to 155 carriages = 5 car trains !

There's also mention of 44 new train equating to 220 carriages = 5 car trains !

Do, will all TPE train be 5 carriages long in a few years time ?

Based on the interactive map, south Transpennine is not seeing any new 125mph units so guessing 185s will be remaining there?

 

[F Great Eastern]

At300 looks likely the picture on the first website download pdf looks similar to one

 

[M7R]

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/...nt-awards-next-transpennine-express-franchise

Arriva and first...

I'll post quite when on PC, on phone at mo

The government has announced it intends to award the Northern franchise to Arriva Rail North Limited, and the TransPennine Express franchise to First Trans Pennine Express Limited. Together they will oversee a massive £1.2 billion boost to rail services with brand-new modern trains, more seats, more services and a host of improvements to deliver a modern, 21st century passenger experience - as well as playing a vital role in bringing the Northern Powerhouse to life, rebalancing the economy, creating jobs, opportunity and growth, and providing significantly better journeys across the region.

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/massive-boost-to-rail-services-brings-northern-powerhouse-to-life

 

[jw]

At300 looks likely the picture on the first website download pdf looks similar to one

Link here to First's overview of the TPE improvements

 

[thealexweb]

Five car trains? Will these be doubled up? At peak times the eight car Scotland services can be rammed now in 2015, let alone in a few years when these are built.

 

[Nym]

My thoughts exactly,
Already seems short sighted to order units that nowhere near fill the platforms but when doubled up wouldn't fit in any of them, also preventing any stacking at Manchester Airport.

 

[gimmea50anyday]

MIA will take 10 on 2 and 3 i think. Theres certainly space whan an 8 car 350 rolls in so 10x20m seemd feasable but dont think 10x23m will fit. Depends on the door configs and carriage length of the train.

Platforms will need lengthening at Yarm, Seamer and Chester-Le-Street. Yarm will only fit 4x185 and CLS 5x221 will fit with front drivers cab off the end but 5x185 wont as they arent allowed to have drivers cab off the platform! Warrington CTL will accomodate 5 but looks as tho TPE are switching to Newton L-W. Seamer will fit 5x185 but again is tight.

I sincerely hope they go with 23m or even 26m coaches. And a buffet area!

 

[YorkshireBear]

SDO is likely on new trains for lots of the intermediate ones.

 

[WatcherZero]

Well they are increasing the frequency by 1/2 tph so that's potentially 50-60% increase in capacity if one is a doubled up limited stopper.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

My thoughts exactly,
Already seems short sighted to order units that nowhere near fill the platforms but when doubled up wouldn't fit in any of them, also preventing any stacking at Manchester Airport.

Thankfully, the fourth platform at Manchester Airport station is fully up and running.

 

[sprinterguy]

Good grief, the franchise award was announced less than an hour and a half ago and already people are complaining about the lack of capacity on new trains that won't be in service for 2 or maybe 3 years? I think there's a few "glass half empty" types posting on here...

 

[61653 HTAFC]

5-car seems odd unless there's an option to extend to 6 at a later date. An improvement on a single 185 but a downgrade on a double, and no option to pair up on the Standedge route due to platform lengths everywhere except Liverpool, Manchester, Leeds, York, and some of the East side termini. Especially considering that TPE will be serving local stations between Leeds and Manchester.

I can't see AT300s being a viable option unless a variant can be offered with wider doors, that is unless common sense has prevailed at long last about frequency in the core.

 

[ag51ruk]

78% of coaches will be new, so around 60 coaches retained of existing stock

 

[WatcherZero]

Hourly Liverpool-Edinburgh is via Newcastle, three trains per day Liverpool-Glasgow via St Helens.

 

[IanXC]

The route map seems to indicate a Manchester Piccadilly to Leeds service - those of us in East Yorkshire will be hoping that means the Hull service will not act as the stopper in the core as was proposed at one stage.

 

[ExRes]

If there are going to be new trains then I fail to see why anyone would complain about them being too long for platforms, goodness sakes, I was driving SDO fitted 222s at the end of 2004, a 10 car set can stop at stations with room for 2 if required

 

[Nym]

I call it realism.
Specified at this level, with the supressed growth in the GM TTWA and WY TTWA we'll be in exactly the same position in around 5 years, with 4 years of 'no growth, not in DfT spec' before the end of the franchise

 

[sprinterguy]

5-car seems odd unless there's an option to extend to 6 at a later date.

If AT-300s with 26 metre carriages are being ordered, though of course we don't know for sure, then a five carriage train will only be 8 metres shorter than a 6-car 185 formation.

 

[Masboroughlad]

I haven't read everything fully yet, but reading the drop down benefits page for lines, my first thoughts:

Rotherham - hoped we would see improvements in terms.of destinations served.

Cleethorpes - Makes no indication of where services will go to from here. Is it destined to become a Donny to Cleethorpes only service? Although I guess this would leave space for Alliance to fill some gaps with OA.

 

[Polarbear]

One wonders whether the 44 x 5 car electric 125 mph units will be equipped with tilt, given that they'll be diagrammed for use over the northern part of the West Coast main line?

Unless current rules are relaxed, max speed without tilt is 110 mph.

 

[Class185]

It's great that Liverpool is now getting an hourly Edinburgh service and a new 3 a day to Glasgow however does that mean the NCL service is staying hourly? Wasn't that supposed to be going to 2tph? Does that mean Liverpool is keeping the SCA service? I know people in Warrington will be happy if that remains....

 

[61653 HTAFC]

The route map seems to indicate a Manchester Piccadilly to Leeds service - those of us in East Yorkshire will be hoping that means the Hull service will not act as the stopper in the core as was proposed at one stage.

Those of us that use those intermediate stations would rather we were keeping our regular stoppers with the existing interchange facilities at places like Dewsbury, but such is life!

 

[Philip Phlopp]

If AT-300s with 26 metre carriages are being ordered, though of course we don't know for sure, then a five carriage train will only be 8 metres shorter than a 6-car 185 formation.

And assuming it's an AT300 order, it would be for a brand new product line with perhaps 10 to 15 years of opportunity to order additional carriages, if the experience of Alstom and their Class 390 deliveries is anything to go by.

It's short-sighted to say electric trains can't develop further, of course they can, but we're at the stage now where development is incremental and fairly consistent, giving new products a long shelf life before they're woefully outdated.

 

[Waddon]

31 brand new 125mph trains equating to 155 carriages = 5 car trains !

There's also mention of 44 new train equating to 220 carriages = 5 car trains !

Do, will all TPE train be 5 carriages long in a few years time ?

This is assuming all the trains are the same specification and number of carriages. The order could be a mix of formation lengths, 4, 5, 6 or more carriages, who knows?