TPE franchise awarded to First

[TBSchenker]

New signage at Manchester Airport.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Looks much more professional than the old First look.

 

[Viscount702]

Two sets of LHCS was supposed to be available by the end of this month. Does anyone know what the position is on these.

Also when are these supposed to be put into service is it Dec 2016 or April 2017

 

[Solent&Wessex]

Two sets of LHCS was supposed to be available by the end of this month. Does anyone know what the position is on these.

Also when are these supposed to be put into service is it Dec 2016 or April 2017

10 x Mk3 coaches are on lease to TPE. These are the Pretendolino set plus 1 other. All are currently sub-leased to AGA. They are being released from AGA "shortly" then going for overhaul and refurbishment at a location TBA - eithet Laira or I think Derby.

They are expected to be available for service with TPE from April 2017.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

They are expected to be available for service with TPE from April 2017.

But not necessarily on front line service, I thought?
They are primarily there to cover for shortages or late delivery of the new trains.
And to test the class 68 operation prior to delivery of the CAF LHCS.

 

[Viscount702]

Increased capacity is needed by Dec 2017 at the latest as the Airport-York is extended to Newcastle and the sixth service starts and therefore they will need to be in service by then as no new stock arrives until 2018 at the earliest. Also the 185 were supposed to be going for refurbishment from later this year so stock will no doubt be needed to cover for this as well.

 

[Greybeard33]

Increased capacity is needed by Dec 2017 at the latest as the Airport-York is extended to Newcastle and the sixth service starts and therefore they will need to be in service by then as no new stock arrives until 2018 at the earliest. Also the 185 were supposed to be going for refurbishment from later this year so stock will no doubt be needed to cover for this as well.

Although Northern's sub-lease of three-and-a-half 185s ends in Dec 2017.

 

[Solent&Wessex]

But not necessarily on front line service, I thought?
They are primarily there to cover for shortages or late delivery of the new trains.
And to test the class 68 operation prior to delivery of the CAF LHCS.

I am told they are planned to be in passenger service from next spring, 2 diagrams per day Operating top and tailed.

 

[WatcherZero]

They have a short lease I believe so they could extend it if the stock was running late but they are principally there for training locomotive drivers.

 

[Blindtraveler]

Well theyl no doubt get plenty bashers when they start

Could someone explain what happens to the services the Northern Sub leased 185s opperate after December?

 

[Greybeard33]

Well theyl no doubt get plenty bashers when they start

Could someone explain what happens to the services the Northern Sub leased 185s opperate after December?

From the information now in Live Trains, the only changes to Northern's 185 diagrams in Dec 2016 will be those dictated by the Blackpool North engineering works. Northern will continue to sublease the 185s until December 2017.

 

[ANorthernGuard]

I have heard off quite a few tpe staff that First got their sums wrong as they are losing 20k a day! Is this true? if so makes sense considering they have stopped doing the Vinyls etc.

 

[pemma]

I have heard off quite a few tpe staff that First got their sums wrong as they are losing 20k a day! Is this true? if so makes sense considering they have stopped doing the Vinyls etc.

I thought the plan was to re-vinyl two trains for the franchise launch and to do 27 more 185s when they got refurbished, in the same way that there's an absence of new Northern vinyls because the refurbished trains aren't in service.

Although, as has been mentioned further up all is quiet on the 2 x temporary loco-hauled sets which First are supposed to have ready for service soon.

Whether First's sums add up is something I can't comment on. Although, like most people I'm aware Virgin claimed their winning West Coast bid had numbers which didn't add up and when DfT looked at it again they seemed to agree. While, reportedly First were the only bidder to propose new stock ahead of electrification with Stagecoach and Kelios reportedly including the loco-hauled 442 option in their bids.

 

[Mordac]

I wish the Railways were as fast as running trains as they are at creating rumours!

 

[WatcherZero]

I have heard off quite a few tpe staff that First got their sums wrong as they are losing 20k a day! Is this true? if so makes sense considering they have stopped doing the Vinyls etc.

Not sure how they could be losing that much since the spend hasn't really started yet. Last year they had subsidy of £43.5m this years its cut to £4.8m and then goes in to a £6.4m premium next year.

4.8, (6.4), (18.6), (46.1), (85.3), (93.2), (116.5), (123.4), (136.0)

 

[Robertj21a]

Not sure how they could be losing that much since the spend hasn't really started yet. Last year they had subsidy of £43.5m this years its cut to £4.8m and then goes in to a £6.4m premium next year.

4.8, (6.4), (18.6), (46.1), (85.3), (93.2), (116.5), (123.4), (136.0)

.......so, its only about 3 years before First start to panic, long after their number-crunchers have moved on elsewhere.

:roll:

 

[Class 170101]

The number crunchers probably have already moved on if they were part of the bid team. Rarely do bid teams actually carry on to operate the franchise.

I thought there were changes this December?

 

[Solent&Wessex]

The changes this December are that some extra services start operating through to Newcastle - the current MIA - YRK shuttles. In October the Middlesbrough trains drop into a different slot at YRK, increasing the dwell time of the MIA - YRK shuttles, perhaps in preparation for the extra Newcastle services. The extra Newcastle services are being resourced by using the I think 3 units that currently sit empty on York depot all day between the morning and evening peak. How that will work in reality remains to be seen as it a virtually daily occurrence that at least one of these units is pinched during the day to replace something failing in service, if they even get there in the first place - some of the morning peak services which are meant to be 6 cars are often 3 due to a shortage of stock off Ardwick in the first place.

Also to note in October is that the 0615 MAN - SCA and 0626 MAN - HUL will run together as far as LDS and divide there.

The loco hauled stock is happening, but timescales are tight. TPE is already leasing 10 coaches, which are on sublease to AGA. These 10 are the Pretendolino set and 1 other AGA vehicle. Once released by AGA (allegedly imminently) then they will go for a internal refresh and are planned to be available for service by next April / May time.

How all these alterations will work with traincrew resource again remains to be seen as any questions asked of anybody, no matter how senior, is met with a brick wall and a stock answer of "We're not quite sure yet, it is still be looked at and worked upon". Which, incidentally, is the answer one gets for pretty much anything. The fact that head office management is still in a state of flux following franchise change surely is of no help to things.

 

[Whistler40145]

Regarding the use of the Pretendolino set on FTPE services, will the locomotives be crewed by DRS drivers or are FTPE drivers signing 68s?

 

[Solent&Wessex]

Regarding the use of the Pretendolino set on FTPE services, will the locomotives be crewed by DRS drivers or are FTPE drivers signing 68s?

TPE Drivers will be learning Class 68s. The use of Class 68s is in the TPE long term plan and they will eventually have a dedicated pool of locos in their own livery. I understand the plan though is that at the start DRS drivers will drive with TPE drivers learning, in much the same way as the Northern 37 hauled operations were.

 

[Whistler40145]

Cheers mate for your reply.

 

[Paul Duck]

The Middlesbrough timings are changing from October to December for leaf fall. Only Middlesbrough to York/Manchester direction midday services Monday To Fridays are changing time. Saturdays & Northbound Middlesbrough services still normal. Well that's what I was told by the powers that be.

 

[DeeGee]

Collected some tickets from Cleethorpes last night and saw the new "Ticket Machines with Helpdesk Functionality" which First trumpeted in their announcement on April 1.



They're massive!

Didn't get the chance to try out their full functionality as I had difficulty picking up the tickets. Couldn't recognise my card first time, and second time I had to keep deleting and reselecting characters due to the screen/touch calibration being out.

 

[Alan2603]

Collected some tickets from Cleethorpes last night and saw the new "Ticket Machines with Helpdesk Functionality" which First trumpeted in their announcement on April 1.

View attachment 28892

They're massive!

Didn't get the chance to try out their full functionality as I had difficulty picking up the tickets. Couldn't recognise my card first time, and second time I had to keep deleting and reselecting characters due to the screen/touch calibration being out.

One of those has appeared in the tunnel under the platforms at Northallerton in the past fortnight. The ticket machine that was outside the ticket office there is no more.

The only problem with the new machines is having to bend right down to enter ones PIN on the keypad (I am sure even a wheelchair user would have to stoop down it is that low).

Alan.

 

[DeeGee]

The ticket machine that was outside the ticket office there is no more.

Apparently the one in Grimsby Town has gone onto the platform too. Does that mean that it won't be accepting cash, I wonder? The Cleethorpes one has always been outside and is reasonably safe as the station concourse is quite a well used thoroughfare at all times of day and night.

 

[Bletchleyite]

One of those has appeared in the tunnel under the platforms at Northallerton in the past fortnight. The ticket machine that was outside the ticket office there is no more.

The only problem with the new machines is having to bend right down to enter ones PIN on the keypad (I am sure even a wheelchair user would have to stoop down it is that low).

This is likely to become a serious issue in 20-30 years' time as ever-taller people get old and cannot bend over to use something like that.

As with ATMs it will be necessary to provide two machines, one about 3' off the ground for wheelchair users and children, and one about 4' 6" off the ground for older, tall people who can't bend over.

Same with door open buttons.

 

[BurtonM]

Stalybridge also got a new TVM recently. It's not quite the same as those ones as it's indoors in the ticket office. Not sure if it's helpdesk enabled considering the ticket office is right behind it and there's a help point on the nearby wall (albeit often showing 404 errors from an old build of Internet Explorer). It has a big long portait oriented screen, a locking flap on the ticket hopper, and it has a space for a contactless card reader, not activated yet though.
It's pretty good but the massive screen means it's weirdly laid out - the credit card slot is in a really daft place nowhere near the PIN pad, and it and the ticket hopper are a bit too low down on this one too. I'd argue that the screen is a bit too big.

 

[Solent&Wessex]

Collected some tickets from Cleethorpes last night and saw the new "Ticket Machines with Helpdesk Functionality" which First trumpeted in their announcement on April 1.

View attachment 28892

They're massive!

Didn't get the chance to try out their full functionality as I had difficulty picking up the tickets. Couldn't recognise my card first time, and second time I had to keep deleting and reselecting characters due to the screen/touch calibration being out.

They are massive, and also so far seemingly quite unreliable if the daily Tyrell messages about machine failures are anything to go by. In lots of locations they are in different places. At Hull for example it is no longer in a bright easy location on the concourse, but in a dark spot in a damp miserable location part way down Platform 2.

There seem to be a few different variations on size and style too.

They print the new style ticket layout.

The helpdesk function seems to link to the control centre, but they report having no training or briefing about it, the thing has just appeared on their computer screen and they report having no idea about how it works or what to do.

 

[PR1Berske]

Collected some tickets from Cleethorpes last night and saw the new "Ticket Machines with Helpdesk Functionality" which First trumpeted in their announcement on April 1.

View attachment 28892

They're massive!

Didn't get the chance to try out their full functionality as I had difficulty picking up the tickets. Couldn't recognise my card first time, and second time I had to keep deleting and reselecting characters due to the screen/touch calibration being out.

One of the biggest problems with the transfer to touch-screen machines is the disconnect between the display and what happens when it's touched. I'm sure we've all experienced the annoyance of pressing a letter only for the letter to its right or left or underneath to appear instead. Advocates for cashless society will have to wait while the industry works on guaranteeing that machines give out what we type in!

(A jukebox in a favourite pub of mine has a similar problem where the screen and touch function are not correctly aligned. By "bobbing down" and pressing with the inner finger rather then the tip, jt works. You learn something from repeated use of these things I guess)

 

[Paul Duck]

The one at Thornaby is in the car park now with the one inside the waiting room been removed.