TPE in dispute with customers over refunds

[2L70]

TPE not having a good night with the public relations

Source - TPE Twitter feed

 

[HullRailMan]

TPE not having a good night with the public relations View attachment 75425 View attachment 75426 View attachment 75427 View attachment 75428 View attachment 75429

TPE not having a good night with the public relations View attachment 75425 View attachment 75426 View attachment 75427 View attachment 75428 View attachment 75429

“I bought a discounted ticket that I knew was non-refundable. Now that I don’t want it, I want a refund. If you say no, your a bad company”

These idiots can’t have it all their own way. If you get a cheap ticket, it comes with strings attached. If you want to flexibility to refund, buy a flexible ticket. Life is about choices. Some people like to blame everyone else when their choices don’t work out the way they wanted.

 

[realnovice]

These idiots can’t have it all their own way. If you get a cheap ticket, it comes with strings attached. If you want to flexibility to refund, buy a flexible ticket. Life is about choices. Some people like to blame everyone else when their choices don’t work out the way they wanted.

Don't agree with calling them 'idiots'. They bought the tickets in good faith and as the country tries to pull together against an unprecedented disease I think refunding a student a fair call and if cynical a good PR win. TPE always seem very keen for your money then when it goes all Pete Tong they moan the other way.

 

[LittleAH]

TPE not having a good night with the public relations View attachment 75425 View attachment 75426 View attachment 75427 View attachment 75428 View attachment 75429

Why have a pop at TPE? The ticket restrictions are clear and other TOCs like cross country are doing exactly the same thing.

 

[2L70]

Post Edited after new thread started - AWC(another First Group company) and LNER have taken the lead on this so people are going to enquire.

 

[Tetchytyke]

These idiots can’t have it all their own way. If you get a cheap ticket, it comes with strings attached.

When the hell did £77 become a "cheap ticket?"

Funny how TPE could dole out free travel worth hundreds to Flybe passengers for the PR wins, but now we're facing an unprecedented public health disaster anyone who asks for a refund of a ticket is an "idiot".

Of course the TOCs are now going down the route of cancelling huge swathes of their schedule ("waa waa we can't afford to run empty trains, give us a bailout"), so anyone with an AP ticket can probably sit tight safe in the knowledge at least one of their booked trains won't run. In which case they're automatically entitled to a refund.

PS It really pees me off when companies say "we cannot" give a refund. They can, at any time and for any reason, nobody is stopping them. What they mean is "we will not".

 

[robbeech]

When the hell did £77 become a "cheap ticket?"
.......... so anyone with an AP ticket can probably sit tight safe in the knowledge at least one of their booked trains won't run. In which case they're automatically entitled to a refund.......

All well and good, though even with Advances, many will reject these requests if an emergency timetable is put in place despite it breaching the contract and being against the law. Nobody is prepared to go into battle with them about it so expect many issue over the coming months with things like this.

 

[CyrusWuff]

There may well come a point at which the rules on refunding Advance tickets will be relaxed, but this should be agreed by ALL of the TOCs through Rail Delivery Group (along with a number of other things such as revenue protection, closing ticket offices and waiting rooms, gateline staffing and eliminating cash handling) so that everyone's singing from the same hymn sheet.

 

[gray1404]

I'm in a situation with TPE refusing to refund an Advance ticket. However one of my booked trains has now been cancelled. If they refuse a refund, given their dreadful attitude as evidenced above, I'll be commencing legal proceedings. Not having any messing around from them anymore.

 

[yorkie]

I'm in a situation with TPE refusing to refund an Advance ticket. However one of my booked trains has now been cancelled. If they refuse a refund, given their dreadful attitude as evidenced above, I'll be commencing legal proceedings. Not having any messing around from them anymore.

As the train is cancelled they have to refund it as per the usual T&Cs.

PS It really pees me off when companies say "we cannot" give a refund.
They can, at any time and for any reason, nobody is stopping them. What they mean is "we will not".

This is actually true; they are indeed not allowed to. The train companies collectively (i.e. ATOC trading as RDG) are stopping them.

 

[rjchapma]

As the train is cancelled they have to refund it as per the usual T&Cs.

This is actually true; they are indeed not allowed to. The train companies collectively (i.e. ATOC trading as RDG) are stopping them.

LNER are offering credit notes for the value of advance tickets, which is better than many other TOC's

 

[yorkie]

LNER are offering credit notes for the value of advance tickets, which is better than many other TOC's

There is a major issue with that, but there are so many complexities I am unsure of the legal and contractual position.

It's unclearif LNER are allowed to do what they are doing. Or, if they are, then perhaps RDG are acting incorrectly.

Either way, something is seriously wrong there. I won't say much more on this subject as to who is right and wrong until the situation becomes clearer as I have heard several different concerns about this bizarre situation.

The combined actions of LNER and RDG are causing loss of reputation and increased harm to retailers (who are already in a terrible situation). It would be 'interesting' to say the least, if it went to court.

 

[Tetchytyke]

This is actually true; they are indeed not allowed to. The train companies collectively (i.e. ATOC trading as RDG) are stopping them.

Really? I think I've heard everything now!

 

[Brissle Girl]

Really? I think I've heard everything now!

Under normal circumstances that’s perfectly reasonable. It would be a) to ensure consistency of terms across the industry, so customers always know what the position is, and b) it’s to stop one TOC breaking ranks and forcing a domino effect on the industry.

But the current circumstances do warrant a different approach, and I think LNER has got it right.

On consistency of terms, a good example of how not to do it is the max age for child’s tickets. With some TOCs now having different ages, how long before someone gets caught out unwittingly when used to one age and then buying a ticket with a TOC with a higher age.

 

[jumble]

There is a major issue with that, but there are so many complexities I am unsure of the legal and contractual position.

It's unclearif LNER are allowed to do what they are doing. Or, if they are, then perhaps RDG are acting incorrectly.

Either way, something is seriously wrong there. I won't say much more on this subject as to who is right and wrong until the situation becomes clearer as I have heard several different concerns about this bizarre situation.

The combined actions of LNER and RDG are causing loss of reputation and increased harm to retailers (who are already in a terrible situation). It would be 'interesting' to say the least, if it went to court.

To be fair LNER are putting their customers interests first
Without customers no LNER and no Retailer
LNER are backed into a corner and cannot win whatever they do
I assume the retailers will be able to hold on to the commission if LNER give credit notes

 

[yorkie]

To be fair LNER are putting their customers interests first

LNER as a TOC or LNER as a retailer? I think you mean the latter, not the former, and that is a major problem.

Without customers no LNER and no Retailer

Yes, but surely all customers should be treated equally.

LNER are backed into a corner and cannot win whatever they do

I think what they have done sounds like a potential case of an abuse of a dominant market position.

https://www.delta-net.com/compliance/competition-law/faqs/what-is-a-dominant-market-position

Abuse of a dominant market position could take the following forms:

- Establishing unfair tradition conditions in the market through creating distorted purchase or selling prices

- Limiting product rates and development as a whole to the disadvantage of consumers

- Placing other competitors and organisations at a competitive disadvantage by creating dissimilar conditions to equivalent transactions with other parties

- Tarnishing contracts with other parties through making the conclusion subject to acceptance by the other parties of supplementary obligations, which in fact have no actual connection to the subject of the contract.

I assume the retailers will be able to hold on to the commission if LNER give credit notes

I can't imagine there is any mechanism for that, surely?! The credit notes appear to go into the coffers of LNER the retailer, rather than the TOC that would have relieved the revenue.

 

[35B]

I'm an LNER (TOC and retailer) customer, who stands to benefit from these arrangements. I agree that in remotely normal circumstances this would be a deeply problematic position but, right now, it feels to me a customer-centric way of responding to a completely abnormal event. Rather than worrying how they are abusing a dominant position, perhaps RDG could turn their mind to how they can facilitate something similar across the network, supporting government policy and without taking even more of a lump out of intermediaries.

I generally respect the views of @yorkie and his focus on the paying customer of the railway. On this one, though, I think he's called it wrong.

For context, I went to my local station at lunchtime the other day to get a refund on my (6 week) season. That will have cost LNER about £500. The other 3 people in the queue were getting refunds on annuals bought around Christmas. I reckon we cost LNER the thick end of £20k in one 5 minute burst.

 

[yorkie]

I'm an LNER (TOC and retailer) customer, who stands to benefit from these arrangements. I agree that in remotely normal circumstances this would be a deeply problematic position but, right now, it feels to me a customer-centric way of responding to a completely abnormal event.

It absolutely is! And RDG should officially mandate this as an agreed practice, in my opinion

Rather than worrying how they are abusing a dominant position, perhaps RDG could turn their mind to how they can facilitate something similar across the network, supporting government policy and without taking even more of a lump out of intermediaries.

To be clear, RDG won't be accusing LNER of abusing a dominant market position; I am saying that it is my opinion that the actions of LNER look to me like a potential abuse of a dominant market position.

I generally respect the views of @yorkie and his focus on the paying customer of the railway. On this one, though, I think he's called it wrong.

OK but how isn't it an abuse of a dominant market position? They are not allowing other retailers to offer the same as they are. Other retailers are banned from doing this.

For context, I went to my local station at lunchtime the other day to get a refund on my (6 week) season. That will have cost LNER about £500. The other 3 people in the queue were getting refunds on annuals bought around Christmas. I reckon we cost LNER the thick end of £20k in one 5 minute burst.

Yes many train companies will be in an absolutely terrible position right now, which is presumably why the train companies (collectively) are not prepared to allow retailers to issue refunds on Advance fares (except LNER as a retailer are defying that by offering refunds)

 

[Tetchytyke]

Yes many train companies will be in an absolutely terrible position right now, which is why the train companies (collectively) are not allowing retailers to issue refunds on Advance fares (except LNER as a retailer are defying that by offering refunds)

It's problematic for independent retailers, so I understand your concern.

But it goes back to RDG greed and ineptitude. Nearly everything wrong on the railway does. RDG should be calling this one.

 

[robbeech]

What is the latest with Southeastern? Have they been reprimanded?

 

[yorkie]

What is the latest with Southeastern? Have they been reprimanded?

If they were a third party retailer they would have been, but as they're a TOC, they will get away with it for sure.

RDG should have implemented a fair, pragmatic and consistent policy from the outset. Just think how much admin time that could have saved, as well as many arguments avoided (Twitter has been full of them)

 

[nicolaboo]

I got this reply from TPE this morning over a question raised about an advance ticketing problem.
I was trying to reschedule too far in the future and questioned booking tickets and then changing them for when I will be able to make the now cancelled trip.

"Hi Neil, that's not possible for advance tickets. We're expecting some news on advance refunds today, so please keep an eye on our tweets"

 

[yorkie]

See https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/coronavirus-rail-franchise-franchise-agreements-suspended-for-6-months.202509/ refunds are now available for all Advance fares.

 

[A Challenge]

See https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...se-agreements-suspended-for-6-months.202509/; refunds are now available for all Advance fares.

That produces an error, saying it can't be found?

 

[MikeWh]

That produces an error, saying it can't be found?

Try this one:

https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...ise-agreements-suspended-for-6-months.202509/

 

[Jamesrob637]

TPE's website allowed me a full refund for all bar one upcoming/non-travelling ticket... said I had to post it. Not worth it for a quid particularly as I don't have any stamps!

 

[WesternLancer]

TPE's website allowed me a full refund for all bar one upcoming/non-travelling ticket... said I had to post it. Not worth it for a quid particularly as I don't have any stamps!

Try adding 'Freepost' to this address?
Write: to TransPennine Express Refunds PO Box 1259 Crawley RH10 0JR

 

[gray1404]

I believe the Freepost address for ticket refunds is "FREEPOST FIRST TRANSPENNINE EXPRESS"

 

[WesternLancer]

I believe the Freepost address for ticket refunds is "FREEPOST FIRST TRANSPENNINE EXPRESS"

Could be - wasn't on their wesbite - but done not mean they don't have one of course