TPE Mark 5A coaching stock progress (includes images)

sprinterguy

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An image of the first Mark 5A bodyshell to be completed for Transpennine Express have been released by CAF. Given the porthole window where the gangway connection would usually be, I wonder whether it's an end vehicle. RTM have fluffed the report a bit by claiming that the mark 5 carriages will be replacing class 350s, when that's the role of the CAF built class 397s.

I thought about adding this post onto the end of the TPE franchise thread, but I didn't think that people potentially trawling through 99 pages of posts was particularly efficient.

http://www.railtechnologymagazine.com/Rail-News/first-bodyshell-completed-by-caf-for-new-tpe-fleet
First bodyshell completed by CAF for new TPE fleet
10.03.17


Pictures of the first bodyshell for new rolling stock to be used by TransPennine Express (TPE) have been unveiled as the operator looks to introduce 13 five-car Mark 5A Coaches – being built by Spanish company CAF – as part of its brand-new fleet.

A total of 66 shell are currently being built, and the carriages are set to enter service in 2018 to run between Liverpool, Manchester, Huddersfield, Leeds, York, Scarborough and Middlesbrough.

The carriages will be pulled by Class 68 locomotives owned by Beacon Rail, leased by Direct Rail services and are being maintained at Alstom’s facilities at Longsight in Manchester.

The high-tech carriages will improve the travelling experience for customers by being more spacious with 291 seats, a 40% uplift from the Class 350s that they are replacing, providing better comfort and free Wi-Fi, plug sockets, USB ports and even an on-board media server for passengers to stream TV and film.

TPE’s procurement of the carriages came last year after a process where no British company submitted a bid for the contract. It came shortly after Arriva also appointed CAF to build 281 new carriages to replace the unpopular Pacer trains on the Northern franchise.

TPE’s managing director Leo Goodwin said: “It’s great that our plans are now becoming reality and I want customers in the north to know that our new trains plus more seats are on the way.

“These spacious carriages will contain brilliant new features that will really benefit customers and the on-board experience will be completely reimagined. Soon, customers will be able to travel in style on brand new, state-of the art trains.”

CAF already provide trains for operators across Europe and is also building new coaches for Serco Caledonian Sleeper Ltd.

Alongside the Mark 5A coaches, CAF is also building 12 five-car Class 397 electric trains for TPE, while Hitachi Rail Europe has been appointed to deliver 19 five-car Class 802 bi-mode trains to be added to the fleet.

The overall upgrade to TPE’s fleet is expected to provide 20,000 extra peak seats per day as it adds 13 million seats into its timetable by 2019. TPE will invest more than £500m between 2018 and 2020 into the three new fleets for its services across the north and Scotland.
 
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physics34

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sorry to be moany but whenever i see coaches being built for britain abroad my heart sinks a little deeper. No need for it at all.

Just hope the seating is comfortable
 

D365

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sorry to be moany but whenever i see coaches being built for britain abroad my heart sinks a little deeper. No need for it at all.
Are you saying that there is capacity at Derby or Newton Aycliffe for further coaches to be introduced in 2018?
 

WatcherZero

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Main reason TPE went for locomotive hauled was because they needed them delivered fast and there was no short term production capacity availability at either of the UK plants. Most of the locomotives were already on order or already built and simple trailers are relatively cheap and quick to build.
 

Bletchleyite

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Main reason TPE went for locomotive hauled was because they needed them delivered fast and there was no short term production capacity availability at either of the UK plants. Most of the locomotives were already on order or already built and simple trailers are relatively cheap and quick to build.
For that reason it would not surprise me to see them being ordered for another franchise bid.
 

LNW-GW Joint

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sorry to be moany but whenever i see coaches being built for britain abroad my heart sinks a little deeper. No need for it at all.
Presumably you don't fly anywhere, as all new passenger airliners are built abroad?
As it was an open tender, Bombardier could have bid for it, but I don't think they did.
The other "UK" builder (Hitachi don't actually build coaches here) has a share of the TPE order (13x802).
Both this order, and the similar Northern one, are rather small and non-standard by international standards so are not attractive to most bidders.
Probably the existence of the "Mk5" production line at CAF for Caledonian Sleepers was a major factor in securing a good price.
 

Chester1

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Presumably you don't fly anywhere, as all new passenger airliners are built abroad?
As it was an open tender, Bombardier could have bid for it, but I don't think they did.
The other "UK" builder (Hitachi don't actually build coaches here) has a share of the TPE order (13x802).
Both this order, and the similar Northern one, are rather small and non-standard by international standards so are not attractive to most bidders.
Probably the existence of the "Mk5" production line at CAF for Caledonian Sleepers was a major factor in securing a good price.
Airplanes are a great example of a global economy. Airbus wings are made in Broughton (near Chester) and they are even building a factory in Alabama. Siemens buys a considerable amount of train parts from British companies. Bombardier is Canadian and even if it was British, a buy british policy would allow them the overcharge.
 

physics34

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Presumably you don't fly anywhere, as all new passenger airliners are built abroad?
As it was an open tender, Bombardier could have bid for it, but I don't think they did.
The other "UK" builder (Hitachi don't actually build coaches here) has a share of the TPE order (13x802).
Both this order, and the similar Northern one, are rather small and non-standard by international standards so are not attractive to most bidders.
Probably the existence of the "Mk5" production line at CAF for Caledonian Sleepers was a major factor in securing a good price.
you presumed wrongly.

The point is the lack of facilities in the UK is a shame when people are constantly bleating about the construction industry and jobs etc. ..... yeh i know its a smallish order and these coaches are virtually "off the shelf".

I dont see how your point about planes is relevant
 

Nym

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sorry to be moany but whenever i see coaches being built for britain abroad my heart sinks a little deeper. No need for it at all.

Just hope the seating is comfortable
you presumed wrongly.

The point is the lack of facilities in the UK is a shame when people are constantly bleating about the construction industry and jobs etc. ..... yeh i know its a smallish order and these coaches are virtually "off the shelf".

I dont see how your point about planes is relevant
You mean at one of them assembly plants in Derby that just welds together bodyshells that are actually made in China?

I'd much rather it was made in Europe in it's entirety, rather than just glued and welded up in Derby from bits that have come half way round the world in boxes. (Since that's all the train building we do in this country now)
 

najaB

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sorry to be moany but whenever i see coaches being built for britain abroad my heart sinks a little deeper. No need for it at all.

Just hope the seating is comfortable
If the UK rail industry didn't go through starts and stops where rolling stock replacement of concerned then there would likely still be more domestic manufacturers. Feast and famine isn't a reliable business model.
 

WatcherZero

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Can hardly blame it on a lack of orders due to privatisation though, BREL was sold off 5 years before the bill authorising the end of BR was introduced to Parliament and factory closures were already ongoing through the 80's.
 
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AM9

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If the UK rail industry didn't go through starts and stops where rolling stock replacement of concerned then there would likely still be more domestic manufacturers. Feast and famine isn't a reliable business model.
It's not just that though. Trains are becoming global designs much like road vehicles and aircraft. Differences in loading gauge are not that relevant to the product in terms of testing, safety approval of structures, electrical system design, proving manufacturing processes and integrarting installed subsystems. Each new design is created with the world market in mind.
The erratic order-book situation is something that probably exists in most developed countries where politics, economics and pure politics cause capital projects to wax and wane with monotonous regularity. The only way to keep major supply lines in business is to sell into a global market, where to a certain extent, the peaks and troughs balance out.
 

najaB

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The only way to keep major supply lines in business is to sell into a global market, where to a certain extent, the peaks and troughs balance out.
I agree there, but the UK market was so moribund that our manufacturers would have been primarily producing for export for very long periods.
 

Des Iroman

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Surely half the point of locohauled is there's no such thing as "an end vehicle" to allow flexibility, no?
No. The point of loco hauled in this case is as stated above, speed of build. They will be semi-permanently coupled by bar couplings between vehicles (conventional screw couplings to loco only), and any expansion will be additional trailers inserted. There will always be an end vehicle to the adjacent loco, and that vehicle contains systems and equipment specific to this role.
 

LNW-GW Joint

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I dont see how your point about planes is relevant
I think the point really is that the UK has a thriving and world-class aerospace sector (eg wings, engines, avionics), despite final assembly being abroad.
The rail sector hasn't just lost assembly, but also design and production of high-value components like bogies and traction packages (even if assembled in the UK).
I think the way back is in components (exportable overseas to multiple manufacturers) rather than final assembly for our small and erratic market.
 

Master29

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sorry to be moany but whenever i see coaches being built for britain abroad my heart sinks a little deeper. No need for it at all.

Just hope the seating is comfortable
I suppose that is a separate subject altogether, and quite a lengthy one at that.
 

NotATrainspott

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The National Express bid for ScotRail supposedly included new-build loco-hauled, which we can probably assume would be built by CAF. TPE could basically order a finished product off the shelf rather than having CAF to design it specifically for them.
 

AM9

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I agree there, but the UK market was so moribund that our manufacturers would have been primarily producing for export for very long periods.
Well there's nothing wrong with exports, they all bring in the money whilst they keep the engineering and manufacturing workforce in gainful employment.
 

GW43125

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No. The point of loco hauled in this case is as stated above, speed of build. They will be semi-permanently coupled by bar couplings between vehicles (conventional screw couplings to loco only), and any expansion will be additional trailers inserted. There will always be an end vehicle to the adjacent loco, and that vehicle contains systems and equipment specific to this role.
Seems somewhat counter-productive, no?
 

najaB

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Well there's nothing wrong with exports, they all bring in the money whilst they keep the engineering and manufacturing workforce in gainful employment.
I know that, but it would've required a conscious decision by BR to chase the export market. The rot had already set in by the time privatisation was being mooted.
 

hurricanemk1c

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I was of the understanding (through reading Modern Railways) that it would be modern couplings (I seem to remember Dellners being mentioned? EDIT: My bad, the Dellners are for the Sleeper Mk5's. As stated before the inter-car coupling on Mk5A's is bar) used on the stock and dedicated 68's. Plus these will be operated in effect as multiple units rather than a loco-hauled consist (as TPE have stated).

There's more than likely some UK content in them somewhere. And for all the moaing about not being built in the UK, I quote "TPE’s procurement of the carriages came last year after a process where no British company submitted a bid for the contract.". Because as stated they are rather busy at the moment building trains in the Uk for the UK (and higher value stuff than 'simple' coaches)
 
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Mikey C

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I think the point really is that the UK has a thriving and world-class aerospace sector (eg wings, engines, avionics), despite final assembly being abroad.
The rail sector hasn't just lost assembly, but also design and production of high-value components like bogies and traction packages (even if assembled in the UK).
I think the way back is in components (exportable overseas to multiple manufacturers) rather than final assembly for our small and erratic market.
Does Alstom make or design much at Preston these days?
 

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