TPE Mark 5A coaching stock progress (includes images)

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K.o.R

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I know they are designed to go with the "look" of the Class 68, but would they conceivably work with any loco, including electric ones? They're just a fixed-formation rake of coaches, right?
 

EE Andy b1

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I know they are designed to go with the "look" of the Class 68, but would they conceivably work with any loco, including electric ones? They're just a fixed-formation rake of coaches, right?
They were designed to work with the Class 68 and it's tech. Even the DTSO cab interior is very similar to the Class 68 for that reason.
Other loco's could drag the sets dead though for assistance or ECS moves.
 

angryskipfan

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Only locos with ar multiple working jumpers and eth. Also cab controls on dtf are based on 68. So reality is that only 68 and 88 or new 93 are fully compatible. 67 might also be ok.

Locos also need mods for tcms system e.g asdo and destination indicators. Etc
 

supervc-10

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Being able to replace the 68s with a bi-mode loco is definitely a big advantage of the Mk5As. I could definitely see them getting replaced in the future by something like the forthcoming 93s, particularly with the "Grayling Gaps".
 

37201xoIM

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Being able to replace the 68s with a bi-mode loco is definitely a big advantage of the Mk5As. I could definitely see them getting replaced in the future by something like the forthcoming 93s, particularly with the "Grayling Gaps".
Or a 125m/h electric once Grayling has his rightful place in the dustbin of history.

AIUI the thinking in TPE was always that if/when Trans-Pennine electrification did finally happen, you'd do just that (with locos, I mean, not with Grayling!) - you'd then put the 802s onto the Middlesbrough / Scarboroughs and the Mk5s on the Newcastle / Edinburghs. And very sensible thinking it was/is, to be fair on them!
 

sjpowermac

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68032 ‘Destroyer’ crossing Scarborough Bridge, York with 0B64 12:00 York to Scarborough driver training/refresher trip on 15th April 2019.

Does anyone have any info on the routes likely to be used for driver training on the Nova 3 sets? Any runs over the core route?
11E0FB9D-C1CF-49EB-BB07-D1AABAD38220.jpeg
 

dilbertphil

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Does anyone have any info on the routes likely to be used for driver training on the Nova 3 sets? Any runs over the core route?
Up to now it will be Crewe to Wavertree, no planned runs over the core route, much to the annoyance of the drivers being trained on them.
 

sjpowermac

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I was very happy to capture 68026 'Enterprise' along with set TP09 as it passed through Deansgate on 5K02 and heading to Crewe LNWR as it has been handed over to Transpennine and will now commence staff training
Superb images, Mike, fantastic to see the set handed over.
 

paddyb6

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But much relief to signallers and passengers on the existing services I imagine...
Yes your right, the Crewe to Wavertree Jcn run is only around 30 mins and there is space for it along the line:
Winsford Slow lines
Acton Bridge/Hartford Loops
Slow Lines Ditton - Wavertree Jcn
 

sjpowermac

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But much relief to signallers and passengers on the existing services I imagine...
Yes, that’s a good point, it’s a busy route. I was thinking though in terms of drivers and guards getting used to things like the Automatic Selective Door Opening, but perhaps that’s possible on the route described.
 

Jozhua

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Or a 125m/h electric once Grayling has his rightful place in the dustbin of history.
Which part of the forum would be appropriate to start a thread around the most efficient ways of moving Grayling into a dustbin? Although cancelling him may be more appropriate.

I am glad to see however that the Nova 3's are in the hands of TPE, so now we can fairly complain if they don't get them introduced in a reasonable timescale ;)

Is there anything stopping us from seeing at least one set trundling around northernland in May? As a frequent user of the Hope Valley Line, I'm more than happy for them to test them out in passenger service with us first...
 

EE Andy b1

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Up to now it will be Crewe to Wavertree, no planned runs over the core route, much to the annoyance of the drivers being trained on them.
That's a bit pathetic for driver handling, surley to Edge Hill with station stops at least or a nice run to Carnforth and back.

Can understand as already stated why no driver handling over the pennines at the moment anyway.
 

BMIFlyer

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I know they are designed to go with the "look" of the Class 68, but would they conceivably work with any loco, including electric ones? They're just a fixed-formation rake of coaches, right?
They were designed to work with the Class 68 and it's tech. Even the DTSO cab interior is very similar to the Class 68 for that reason.
Other loco's could drag the sets dead though for assistance or ECS moves.
Only locos with ar multiple working jumpers and eth. Also cab controls on dtf are based on 68. So reality is that only 68 and 88 or new 93 are fully compatible. 67 might also be ok.

Locos also need mods for tcms system e.g asdo and destination indicators. Etc
To clarify for all the above, the Mk5A stock will only work with the modified TPE pool 68's that are fitted with the CAF Control system, nothing else is compatible.
 

driver_m

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That's a bit pathetic for driver handling, surley to Edge Hill with station stops at least or a nice run to Carnforth and back.

Can understand as already stated why no driver handling over the pennines at the moment anyway.
Edge Hill won’t make that much difference Andy and will just get in the way TBH. Wavertree turnback at least will give a proper run instead of going red to red. Had a lot of TPE road learning this way with us.
 

PennineSuperb

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To clarify for all the above, the Mk5A stock will only work with the modified TPE pool 68's that are fitted with the CAF Control system, nothing else is compatible.
MK5A Coaching stock can work with any other ETS fitted locomotives. You loose all CAF controlled systems however, for example door release would return to the Guard.
If in future they wished to (for example) use 67's they could. It would just work like conventional loco and stock and require to run as Top & Tail or run the Loco round and the terminating station. You would have to however override the SIFA.
 

PennineSuperb

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Just to add a further point:
It is presumed that the Loco's and Coaches are all integrated and work like a MU. (And TPE management lead everyone to believe this) However in its basic form it's a Power Unit, with a long extension lead to the DT to provide Power/Brake Control (and a few other things) and an extension lead from the coaches to the Loco, to provide door controls, CAF TMS etc..
 

Ben Bow

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That's a bit pathetic for driver handling, surley to Edge Hill with station stops at least or a nice run to Carnforth and back.

Can understand as already stated why no driver handling over the pennines at the moment anyway.
I have been told that once a core of TPE services are up and running with 68's, some of the handling for subsequent drivers trained will be done on those service trains. Not sure that's an entirely good plan.
 

sjpowermac

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I have been told that once a core of TPE services are up and running with 68's, some of the handling for subsequent drivers trained will be done on those service trains. Not sure that's an entirely good plan.
That sounds like a lot of pressure for the drivers.

We have already had test runs over the Pennines, and without the timetable falling apart. Some of those runs included extended station stops for testing of platform operations. Other trips avoided the bottleneck of Leeds by running via-Sherburn.

Obviously I’m not a driver, guard or timetabler, but it does look a bit odd not to find a couple of paths a day for staff to experience the trains over the route they will be expected to work.
 

EE Andy b1

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Well to my mind until TPE drivers get used to handling these Mk5a sets on the route they serve with all the station stops, they will either need to put extra time into the diagrams or be prepared for late running.
The drivers already have the route knowledge driving with Class 185s but LHCS and these propelled sets are a different proposition but once the drivers get handling the trains on a regular basis the time taken for braking and station stops will reduce as obviously they get used to the handling, which is the same for any of us with new traction or new routes.
So i presume the Crewe - Wavertree (yep i now agree Mark) runs will give a basic handling then in July when HOPEFULLY the 2 sets are running Liverpool - Scarborough all drivers trained will then get a couple of days or so handling over the core route, but as i say timings might suffer initially or more recovery time is built into the diagrams.
 

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