TPE Mark 5A coaching stock progress

[BMIFlyer]

The TPE Hitachis are already under test. Which is early going by the previously mentioned TPE plan.

Two TPE 802's under test and have been photographed running in multiple as well.

Hopefully with TPE 802s having one for route clearance and staff training so far ahead of the rest of the build (and with all the various acceptance issues being ironed out by other operators) should, in theory, lead to swift introduction when the bulk are built.

Potential that they might use some of the 802's on the WCML until the 397's arrive. That's a might and not a certainty.

70 minutes? Really? That's rather long and surprising.

Gives recovery into the timetable and allows for the train to be fully cleaned, etc. IIRC, on Sundays with the planned diagrams you should be able to see 2x MK5A sets in Scarborough at the same time, in the late morning period - this is subject to change however.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Fair enough - it's good to hear that level of resilience - just surprising. Mind you, I suppose the Stagecoach 99 (MK-Luton Airport) has a 59 minute layover at the MK end on a much shorter journey - often if one is a bit early you see two at the same time.

 

[Mollman]

The TPE Hitachis are already under test. Which is early going by the previously mentioned TPE plan.

These are the pre-production Japanese built sets. None of the Italian sets have arrived yet.

 

[EE Andy b1]

Gives recovery into the timetable and allows for the train to be fully cleaned, etc. IIRC, on Sundays with the planned diagrams you should be able to see 2x MK5A sets in Scarborough at the same time, in the late morning period - this is subject to change however.

It's a pity they didn't give this.much time to the layover of Class 185s at Scarborough, they might not have been either turning round short of destination or cancelled leaving passengers stranded until the next late service arrived.
This time is needed either end of service rather than just knocking 4-5 minutes of the timings. That's not what most people are bothered about. Departing & arriving on time with a seat in some comfort at a reasonable price is!!

Hopefully once everything is up and running then maybe we all get the service we desire. I'll not hold my breath though and that's not just at TPE.

 

[Jamesrob637]

Set TP04 was out with 68025 it ran Manchester - Warrington - Bletchley - Crewe - Wilmslow - Heald Green - Manchester meaning it's now back to the "Correct Way" around after it been returned via a more direct route on it's last test after suffering with wheel flats, which it no longer has, seemed to all be going well today, and even arrived at Wilmslow, where I snapped it, EARLY!


Transpennine Express 68025 by Mike McNiven, on Flickr


Transpennine Express 12804 by Mike McNiven, on Flickr

A whole ONE MINUTE early according to RTT but yes a good sight and even in the dullness of today!

 

[BMIFlyer]

It's a pity they didn't give this.much time to the layover of Class 185s at Scarborough, they might not have been either turning round short of destination or cancelled leaving passengers stranded until the next late service arrived.

I agree - simple truth is - not enough 185's, as Northern still have 2 sets....

 

[EE Andy b1]

I agree - simple truth is - not enough 185's, as Northern still have 2 sets....

So once again if the timetable and turnaround times was not viable then they should not have been submitted and bid for, until a viable and robust timetable with the stock they had was available. That also applies to all the other TOCs that messed up.
As has been mentioned elsewhere Northern got plenty stick of there mess, not all of there making but TPE hardly get a mention and have got off lightly so they carry on with a poor service especially on the Eastern side of the Pennines.

As i've said before the Mk5a sets were a quicker build time (the Class 68s were already built) and a quick fix but that's not happening so by the time these eventually come into squadron service the other units will be with us (maybe ), they might as well have just gone down the Class 397/802 route and saved a lot of money and future problems.

YEs the problems were not all of TPEs making, Network Rail & DfT (The Government) have a big part to play. But Grayling "doesn't run the railways" apparently.

 

[BMIFlyer]

they might as well have just gone down the Class 397/802 route and saved a lot of money and future problems

Well, no. Because they would have to wait a long time 2-3 years for all the 802's to be built.

 

[EE Andy b1]

Well, no. Because they would have to wait a long time 2-3 years for all the 802's to be built.

Perhaps they could of carried on building the other 17 + Class 802s in Japan as UK and Italy are full, unless they have the same problem.

But don't get me wrong i certainly don't want more Class 80x as there not a great product for passengers as they are.

 

[LittleAH]

So once again if the timetable and turnaround times was not viable then they should not have been submitted and bid for, until a viable and robust timetable with the stock they had was available. That also applies to all the other TOCs that messed up.
As has been mentioned elsewhere Northern got plenty stick of there mess, not all of there making but TPE hardly get a mention and have got off lightly so they carry on with a poor service especially on the Eastern side of the Pennines.

As i've said before the Mk5a sets were a quicker build time (the Class 68s were already built) and a quick fix but that's not happening so by the time these eventually come into squadron service the other units will be with us (maybe ), they might as well have just gone down the Class 397/802 route and saved a lot of money and future problems.

YEs the problems were not all of TPEs making, Network Rail & DfT (The Government) have a big part to play. But Grayling "doesn't run the railways" apparently.

Not sure how you can say TPE have gotten off lightly. It's not like they were not able to run services whatsoever. Still that, for me, is down to the decision to go ahead with a timetable change that was completely unnecessary for many reasons.

Furthermore, not sure what point there is going down a 802 route for the Scarbados or Boro routes, given that the running on overhead wires would be a very small percentage of the journey.

As you mentioned earlier on this thread, the issue with the mk5 sets that the Scottish sleeper had is also an issue for the TPE ones. Question is, what has CAF done to rectify it? Have they learned from it?

 

[Spartacus]

Isn't the problem with Scarborough two fold?

1) The Man Pic - Leeds stopper causing delays and 2) ........

The Pic - Leeds stopper often isn't a problem as such, but if the Middlesbrough is a few minutes late it ends up behind it from Stalybridge. That means that the Scarborough, which is booked to overtake the stopper at Dewsbury can't because the Middlesbrough is between it and the stopper and is also booked to call at Dewsbury. Early in the timetable the stopper was rarely looped at Diggle or Huddersfield, but I believe some pressure was applied to make sure that was done more often, although at certain times it's impossible to loop it at Huddersfield if platform 4 is occupied.

 

[Boysteve]

Anyway, test trains will be running soon to Scarborough (not in service).

Or will they be turned at Malton????

 

[YorkshireBear]

The Pic - Leeds stopper often isn't a problem as such, but if the Middlesbrough is a few minutes late it ends up behind it from Stalybridge. That means that the Scarborough, which is booked to overtake the stopper at Dewsbury can't because the Middlesbrough is between it and the stopper and is also booked to call at Dewsbury. Early in the timetable the stopper was rarely looped at Diggle or Huddersfield, but I believe some pressure was applied to make sure that was done more often, although at certain times it's impossible to loop it at Huddersfield if platform 4 is occupied.

In that situation they have started cancelling the middlesborough call at Dewsbury with both services overtaking the stopper.

 

[BMIFlyer]

Furthermore, not sure what point there is going down a 802 route for the Scarbados or Boro routes, given that the running on overhead wires would be a very small percentage of the journey.

As you mentioned earlier on this thread, the issue with the mk5 sets that the Scottish sleeper had is also an issue for the TPE ones. Question is, what has CAF done to rectify it? Have they learned from it?

No class 802s going to Scarborough

Issues with TPE Mk5A's not the same as the Mk5s at all.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

In that situation they have started cancelling the middlesborough call at Dewsbury with both services overtaking the stopper.

I do hope they make this decision (and announce it) before it leaves Huddersfield (like they used to with the Hull and Scarborough services in the old days) or failing that, don't punish those of us with zone 2-5 MCards.

 

[Spartacus]

In that situation they have started cancelling the middlesborough call at Dewsbury with both services overtaking the stopper.

I've heard of it happening for a while, though never to myself yet. I'm told at Dewsbury that the first knowledge you have is if the signal on the centre road goes green while the stopper's stood there, no announcements or info on the boards.

 

[Class37.4]

Not sure how you can say TPE have gotten off lightly. It's not like they were not able to run services whatsoever. Still that, for me, is down to the decision to go ahead with a timetable change that was completely unnecessary for many reasons.

Furthermore, not sure what point there is going down a 802 route for the Scarbados or Boro routes, given that the running on overhead wires would be a very small percentage of the journey.

As you mentioned earlier on this thread, the issue with the mk5 sets that the Scottish sleeper had is also an issue for the TPE ones. Question is, what has CAF done to rectify it? Have they learned from it?

Other than the supposedly quicker uplift in capacity I don’t see a need for the Loco Hauled sets. No need for any more 802’s either simply keep all the 185 rather than some becoming surplus.

I think the whole concept of this route becoming more inter city is utter nonesense quite frankly ok maybe 802 are just about justified on Newcastle/Edinburgh and they can make some use of the bi-mode capability and the obvious capacity increase, but for the rest of the routes 185 are perfectly good enough.

The majority of journeys on this route are fairly short haul Leeds Huddersfield Manchester York etc, do most punters care about 1st class and a kitchen, I think not.

 

[samuelmorris]

I was under the impression the 185s were perfectly fine but there were far too few of them due to the SRA cutbacks when they were introduced. Peak-time there are severe crowding issues on TPE, a 5-car set whether it's an 802 or LHCS will be much better than 3, plus any extra units will help, via cascades, to lessen the nationwide DMU shortage. As far as I know the LHCS option was the only satisfactory diesel solution they could come up with outside of 802s which given all the other orders in front of them, would have taken too long to arrive. The way things are currently going with the LNER order, I'm pretty sure they'll be glad they did it.

 

[BMIFlyer]

I think the whole concept of this route becoming more inter city is utter nonesense quite frankly ok maybe 802 are just about justified on Newcastle/Edinburgh and they can make some use of the bi-mode capability and the obvious capacity increase, but for the rest of the routes 185 are perfectly good enough.

The majority of journeys on this route are fairly short haul Leeds Huddersfield Manchester York etc, do most punters care about 1st class and a kitchen, I think not.

I disagree. 1st class is well used. Many passengers travel a lot further than the journeys that you state. You only have to check the daily seat reservations list to see that. Newcastle to Manchester is popular as is Scarborough to Manchester and York to Liverpool.

The intercity makeover so to speak is to pull passengers to the railway (from road/air) and that's why it's being done.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I disagree. 1st class is well used. Many passengers travel a lot further than the journeys that you state. You only have to check the daily seat reservations list to see that. Newcastle to Manchester is popular as is Scarborough to Manchester and York to Liverpool.

The intercity makeover so to speak is to pull passengers to the railway (from road/air) and that's why it's being done.

1st is well used because of the unacceptable levels of overcrowding in Standard.

And I very much doubt that there will be much capacity to pull passengers from anywhere - a 5-car should just about mean all the present passengers get a seat.

 

[Class37.4]

I was under the impression the 185s were perfectly fine but there were far too few of them due to the SRA cutbacks when they were introduced. Peak-time there are severe crowding issues on TPE, a 5-car set whether it's an 802 or LHCS will be much better than 3, plus any extra units will help, via cascades, to lessen the nationwide DMU shortage. As far as I know the LHCS option was the only satisfactory diesel solution they could come up with outside of 802s which given all the other orders in front of them, would have taken too long to arrive. The way things are currently going with the LNER order, I'm pretty sure they'll be glad they did it.

The thing with the 802 and keeping all 185 the capacity would not be dissimilar to what’s intended with most 185 services being able to be paired up, but obviously the uplift in capacity can be provided quicker with the loco hauled trains although of course that is slipping. if I were Tpe I would be concerned about the loco hauled stock on this busy route and their single point off failure. If the opportunity arises I would look to get rid ASAP and keep all the 185 instead. Which of course could happen with Liverpool Nottingham

 

[samuelmorris]

There are so many single points of failure on modern units these days I'm not sure it'd make that much difference in practice.

 

[Mollman]

As i've said before the Mk5a sets were a quicker build time (the Class 68s were already built) and a quick fix but that's not happening so by the time these eventually come into squadron service the other units will be with us (maybe ), they might as well have just gone down the Class 397/802 route and saved a lot of money and future problems.

Except there is a current ban on the introduction of IEPs to LNER and I suspect that will be extended to TPE too.

 

[EE Andy b1]

Except there is a current ban on the introduction of IEPs to LNER and I suspect that will be extended to TPE too.

You would hope though that Hitachi & Network Rail would have sorted out the signal screening problems (it happened on West Coast with Class 390s) before TPE introduce there Class 802s but it WILL be Mk5a sets introduced first, it's just that they will be late by at least 7 months and probably later than that by the time all sets are working, and as every other thread about traction/Rolling stock is showing they are all having there own problems and all will be much later than anyone anticipated which is having a massive knock on effect to all other TOCs due to non-cascading of trains.

 

[Chuggington21]

Is there a date in mind for 802s and Edinburgh to Newcastle and the introduction of 397s

 

[BMIFlyer]

Is there a date in mind for 802s and Edinburgh to Newcastle and the introduction of 397s

No....

 

[Chuggington21]

No....

I guess I'll be learning 350s and 185s when I join next year

 

[87015]

So in all the excitement over longer stock turnarounds at Scarborough, what about crew diagrams? Are they coming out of the perfect model or is the financial hit of dead time being absorbed?

 

[LittleAH]

No class 802s going to Scarborough

Issues with TPE Mk5A's not the same as the Mk5s at all.

I know, I was pointing out 802s are pretty pointless on the aforementioned routes.

What is the Mk5a issue then, if you know? I was told it was similar to the Caledonian.

 

[BMIFlyer]

What is the Mk5a issue then, if you know? I was told it was similar to the Caledonian.

Wheel Slide Protection (hence a couple of videos seen with the coaches having wheel flats). All sorted now.