TPE Mark 5A coaching stock progress

Discussion in 'Traction & Rolling Stock' started by sprinterguy, 11 Mar 2017.

  1. sprinterguy

    sprinterguy Established Member

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    An image of the first Mark 5A bodyshell to be completed for Transpennine Express have been released by CAF. Given the porthole window where the gangway connection would usually be, I wonder whether it's an end vehicle. RTM have fluffed the report a bit by claiming that the mark 5 carriages will be replacing class 350s, when that's the role of the CAF built class 397s.

    I thought about adding this post onto the end of the TPE franchise thread, but I didn't think that people potentially trawling through 99 pages of posts was particularly efficient.

     
    Last edited: 11 Mar 2017
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  3. physics34

    physics34 Established Member

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    sorry to be moany but whenever i see coaches being built for britain abroad my heart sinks a little deeper. No need for it at all.

    Just hope the seating is comfortable
     
  4. D365

    D365 Established Member

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    Are you saying that there is capacity at Derby or Newton Aycliffe for further coaches to be introduced in 2018?
     
  5. WatcherZero

    WatcherZero Established Member

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    Main reason TPE went for locomotive hauled was because they needed them delivered fast and there was no short term production capacity availability at either of the UK plants. Most of the locomotives were already on order or already built and simple trailers are relatively cheap and quick to build.
     
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  6. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

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    For that reason it would not surprise me to see them being ordered for another franchise bid.
     
  7. LNW-GW Joint

    LNW-GW Joint Veteran Member

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    Presumably you don't fly anywhere, as all new passenger airliners are built abroad?
    As it was an open tender, Bombardier could have bid for it, but I don't think they did.
    The other "UK" builder (Hitachi don't actually build coaches here) has a share of the TPE order (13x802).
    Both this order, and the similar Northern one, are rather small and non-standard by international standards so are not attractive to most bidders.
    Probably the existence of the "Mk5" production line at CAF for Caledonian Sleepers was a major factor in securing a good price.
     
  8. Chester1

    Chester1 Established Member

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    Airplanes are a great example of a global economy. Airbus wings are made in Broughton (near Chester) and they are even building a factory in Alabama. Siemens buys a considerable amount of train parts from British companies. Bombardier is Canadian and even if it was British, a buy british policy would allow them the overcharge.
     
  9. physics34

    physics34 Established Member

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    you presumed wrongly.

    The point is the lack of facilities in the UK is a shame when people are constantly bleating about the construction industry and jobs etc. ..... yeh i know its a smallish order and these coaches are virtually "off the shelf".

    I dont see how your point about planes is relevant
     
  10. Nym

    Nym Established Member

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    You mean at one of them assembly plants in Derby that just welds together bodyshells that are actually made in China?

    I'd much rather it was made in Europe in it's entirety, rather than just glued and welded up in Derby from bits that have come half way round the world in boxes. (Since that's all the train building we do in this country now)
     
  11. najaB

    najaB Veteran Member

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    If the UK rail industry didn't go through starts and stops where rolling stock replacement of concerned then there would likely still be more domestic manufacturers. Feast and famine isn't a reliable business model.
     
  12. WatcherZero

    WatcherZero Established Member

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    Can hardly blame it on a lack of orders due to privatisation though, BREL was sold off 5 years before the bill authorising the end of BR was introduced to Parliament and factory closures were already ongoing through the 80's.
     
    Last edited: 11 Mar 2017
  13. AM9

    AM9 Established Member

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    It's not just that though. Trains are becoming global designs much like road vehicles and aircraft. Differences in loading gauge are not that relevant to the product in terms of testing, safety approval of structures, electrical system design, proving manufacturing processes and integrarting installed subsystems. Each new design is created with the world market in mind.
    The erratic order-book situation is something that probably exists in most developed countries where politics, economics and pure politics cause capital projects to wax and wane with monotonous regularity. The only way to keep major supply lines in business is to sell into a global market, where to a certain extent, the peaks and troughs balance out.
     
  14. GW43125

    GW43125 Established Member

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    Surely half the point of locohauled is there's no such thing as "an end vehicle" to allow flexibility, no?
     
  15. najaB

    najaB Veteran Member

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    I agree there, but the UK market was so moribund that our manufacturers would have been primarily producing for export for very long periods.
     
  16. Des Iroman

    Des Iroman Member

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    No. The point of loco hauled in this case is as stated above, speed of build. They will be semi-permanently coupled by bar couplings between vehicles (conventional screw couplings to loco only), and any expansion will be additional trailers inserted. There will always be an end vehicle to the adjacent loco, and that vehicle contains systems and equipment specific to this role.
     
  17. Roast Veg

    Roast Veg Member

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    Quite akin to the Mk4 design it seems.
     
  18. LNW-GW Joint

    LNW-GW Joint Veteran Member

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    I think the point really is that the UK has a thriving and world-class aerospace sector (eg wings, engines, avionics), despite final assembly being abroad.
    The rail sector hasn't just lost assembly, but also design and production of high-value components like bogies and traction packages (even if assembled in the UK).
    I think the way back is in components (exportable overseas to multiple manufacturers) rather than final assembly for our small and erratic market.
     
  19. Master29

    Master29 On Moderation

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    I suppose that is a separate subject altogether, and quite a lengthy one at that.
     
  20. NotATrainspott

    NotATrainspott Established Member

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    The National Express bid for ScotRail supposedly included new-build loco-hauled, which we can probably assume would be built by CAF. TPE could basically order a finished product off the shelf rather than having CAF to design it specifically for them.
     
  21. AM9

    AM9 Established Member

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    Well there's nothing wrong with exports, they all bring in the money whilst they keep the engineering and manufacturing workforce in gainful employment.
     
  22. GW43125

    GW43125 Established Member

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    Seems somewhat counter-productive, no?
     
  23. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

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    Agreed - I'd have at least expected Scharfenbergs within sets and coaches able to work alone.

    I guess these are a bit more like unpowered MUs - a bit like 4-TCs, say.


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  24. najaB

    najaB Veteran Member

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    I know that, but it would've required a conscious decision by BR to chase the export market. The rot had already set in by the time privatisation was being mooted.
     
  25. hurricanemk1c

    hurricanemk1c Member

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    I was of the understanding (through reading Modern Railways) that it would be modern couplings (I seem to remember Dellners being mentioned? EDIT: My bad, the Dellners are for the Sleeper Mk5's. As stated before the inter-car coupling on Mk5A's is bar) used on the stock and dedicated 68's. Plus these will be operated in effect as multiple units rather than a loco-hauled consist (as TPE have stated).

    There's more than likely some UK content in them somewhere. And for all the moaing about not being built in the UK, I quote "TPE’s procurement of the carriages came last year after a process where no British company submitted a bid for the contract.". Because as stated they are rather busy at the moment building trains in the Uk for the UK (and higher value stuff than 'simple' coaches)
     
    Last edited: 12 Mar 2017
  26. Mikey C

    Mikey C Established Member

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  27. Mikey C

    Mikey C Established Member

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    Does Alstom make or design much at Preston these days?
     
  28. Qwerty133

    Qwerty133 Established Member

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    Please tell me that its actually 185s being replaced and no one thought replacing EMUs with Diesel locomotive hauled stock was a forward looking move...
     
  29. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

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    Yes, it is.


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  30. CosherB

    CosherB Established Member

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  31. BurtonM

    BurtonM Member

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    Well written... what's a five-car coach, a big Motorail trailer?
     

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