TPE Mark 5A coaching stock progress

[alexl92]

Apologies if this has been asked before but is there any reason why they didn’t ask for MK5 DBSOs or similar as part of this order, rather than using 2 locos per train? To my mind, it would have saved on fuel costs long-term as well as making these sets more versatile for redeployment once TPE finish with them?

 

[sprinterguy]

Apologies if this has been asked before but is there any reason why they didn’t ask for MK5 DBSOs or similar as part of this order, rather than using 2 locos per train? To my mind, it would have saved on fuel costs long-term as well as making these sets more versatile for redeployment once TPE finish with them?

The mark 5 rakes will be using DTSOs. It's only the two mark 3 rakes that are operating in top and tail formation.

 

[YorkshireBear]

Apologies if this has been asked before but is there any reason why they didn’t ask for MK5 DBSOs or similar as part of this order, rather than using 2 locos per train? To my mind, it would have saved on fuel costs long-term as well as making these sets more versatile for redeployment once TPE finish with them?

They have ordered DTSOs

 

[1179_Clee2]

Apologies if this has been asked before but is there any reason why they didn’t ask for MK5 DBSOs or similar as part of this order, rather than using 2 locos per train? To my mind, it would have saved on fuel costs long-term as well as making these sets more versatile for redeployment once TPE finish with them?

Trans Pennine MK 5 coach's from Platform 5's pocket Book 2018
FO 30 seats 1TD 2W 11501 to 11513
TSO ?? seats 12701 to 12739 Full details awaited
DBSO 64 seats 12801 to 12814

 

[Chester1]

The mark 5 rakes will be using DTSOs. It's only the two mark 3 rakes that are operating in top and tail formation.

I pressume thats because the Mark III rakes will have to opperate 185 diagrams and wouldn't accelerate fast enough with one loco? I am guessing that the Mark Vs are lighter than Mark IIIs?

 

[sprinterguy]

I pressume thats because the Mark III rakes will have to opperate 185 diagrams and wouldn't accelerate fast enough with one loco? I am guessing that the Mark Vs are lighter than Mark IIIs?

Primarily because the mark 3 sets are being used to train drivers on class 68 locos - so running top 'n' tail maximises training time on the type - and also because top and tail is quicker, cheaper and simpler than having to convert more mark 3 DVTs to AAR multiple working and then train drivers on those as well for a limited period of time.

Wikipedia gives a mark 5 weight of 43 tonnes, while mark 3s weigh between 34 and 40 tonnes (Catering vehicles being heaviest), so, no, mark 5s are not lighter. The trend in comparable rolling stock weights only really moves upward as time passes.

 

[alexl92]

The destination display is at the bottom of the windscreen similar to those on a voyager. There's a track facing cctv camera next to it.

The mark 5 rakes will be using DTSOs. It's only the two mark 3 rakes that are operating in top and tail formation.

They have ordered DTSOs

Trans Pennine MK 5 coach's from Platform 5's pocket Book 2018
FO 30 seats 1TD 2W 11501 to 11513
TSO ?? seats 12701 to 12739 Full details awaited
DBSO 64 seats 12801 to 12814

I pressume thats because the Mark III rakes will have to opperate 185 diagrams and wouldn't accelerate fast enough with one loco? I am guessing that the Mark Vs are lighter than Mark IIIs?

Primarily because the mark 3 sets are being used to train drivers on class 68 locos - so running top 'n' tail maximises training time on the type - and also because top and tail is quicker, cheaper and simpler than having to convert more mark 3 DVTs to AAR multiple working and then train drivers on those as well for a limited period of time.

Wikipedia gives a mark 5 weight of 43 tonnes, while mark 3s weigh between 34 and 40 tonnes (Catering vehicles being heaviest), so, no, mark 5s are not lighter. The trend in comparable rolling stock weights only really moves upward as time passes.

Thanks all - got mixed up with the MK3s!

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Aren't the CAF coaches being delivered with the DTSOs last, so the initial sets will be topped and tailed as 4-car sets for a period?
Or have plans changed?

 

[BMIFlyer]

Aren't the CAF coaches being delivered with the DTSOs last, so the initial sets will be topped and tailed as 4-car sets for a period?
Or have plans changed?

Internally the info is that the Mk5 DTSO's are now being delivered on time, with the coaches.

 

[BMIFlyer]

Trans Pennine MK 5 coach's from Platform 5's pocket Book 2018
FO 30 seats 1TD 2W 11501 to 11513
TSO ?? seats 12701 to 12739 Full details awaited
DBSO 64 seats 12801 to 12814

FO is 30 seats plus 2 wheelchair plus universal toilet plus kitchen plus guards office
TSO1 is 72 seats and 1 toilet (2 coaches)
TSO2 is 65 seats and 1 toilet and 2 cycles bays (1 coach)
DT is 64 seats and crew area

 

[Thomas6187]

Looks like TPE are planning to run the 68+MK3s on Saturday 30th on the following:

5Z01 20:47 Crewe-Airport ECS
1Z01 22:01 Airport-Piccadilly 22:16
1Z02 22:27 Piccadilly-Airport 22:40
5Z02 23:00 Airport-Crewe ECS

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Looks like TPE are planning to run the 68+MK3s on Saturday 30th on the following:

5Z01 20:47 Crewe-Airport ECS
1Z01 22:01 Airport-Piccadilly 22:16
1Z02 22:27 Piccadilly-Airport 22:40
5Z02 23:00 Airport-Crewe ECS

Staff familiarisation I presume?

Are there any plans for test runs "over the top" in the coming weeks? I'd expect platform staff at Huddersfield won't be over-familiar with slam-door stock!

 

[Bungle965]

Looks like TPE are planning to run the 68+MK3s on Saturday 30th on the following:

5Z01 20:47 Crewe-Airport ECS
1Z01 22:01 Airport-Piccadilly 22:16
1Z02 22:27 Piccadilly-Airport 22:40
5Z02 23:00 Airport-Crewe ECS

1Z01 22:01 Airport-Piccadilly 22:16 and 1Z02 22:27 Piccadilly-Airport 22:40 are said to be operating in passenger service.
Sam

 

[absolutelymilk]

Could we keep discussion of the Mark 3s to the thread for them please?
https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...n-limited-services.144501/page-9#post-3262498

When will the Mark 5As start testing in the UK?

 

[BMIFlyer]

Could we keep discussion of the Mark 3s to the thread for them please?
https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...n-limited-services.144501/page-9#post-3262498

When will the Mark 5As start testing in the UK?

Once testing in Spain or CZ has given good enough results. Unable to be precise so just wait until the summer for updates.

 

[Chester1]

Once testing in Spain or CZ has given good enough results. Unable to be precise so just wait until the summer for updates.

That would indicate no Mark Vs in service until the Autumn? At this rate there will be no internal cascade of 185s to South TP until late next year. I guess a small boost in capacity on North Transpennine is something.

 

[BMIFlyer]

That would indicate no Mark Vs in service until the Autumn? At this rate there will be no internal cascade of 185s to South TP until late next year. I guess a small boost in capacity on North Transpennine is something.

As fas as I was aware the plan was no doubling up of sets on South TP until December 2018 anyway. Not enough trains until then. Don't forget Northern still use 185s as well.

 

[Chester1]

As fas as I was aware the plan was no doubling up of sets on South TP until December 2018 anyway. Not enough trains until then. Don't forget Northern still use 185s as well.

I thought the Northern 185s are being returned in time for the May 2018 timetable change? If the extra North TP service can be introduced without Mark Vs then presumably when they do arrive some services could be doubled up? Or will the number of 185s away for upgrade just increase instead?

 

[BMIFlyer]

I thought the Northern 185s are being returned in time for the May 2018 timetable change? If the extra North TP service can be introduced without Mark Vs then presumably when they do arrive some services could be doubled up? Or will the number of 185s away for upgrade just increase instead?

There should be a Mk3 set replacing a 185 from May, but thus is subject to crew training.

The plan is to refurbish 2 class 185's at the same time from roughly then as well. They all have to be done before the first Mark 5 set enters service.

Don't forget that 185's will only be returned subject to Northen having enough stock to replace them. Thank Network Rail for the slow progress on the Manchester to Preston wiring project for that.

 

[DunfordBridge]

Not entirely sure these look the most comfortable seats ever...

Today, I have travelled on class 158s and felt totally comfortable. I also work on a heritage railway where the seats have a higher level of comfort. Need I say more about the present state of British rolling stock?

 

[Agent_Squash]

There should be a Mk3 set replacing a 185 from May, but this is subject to crew training.

The plan is to refurbish 2 class 185's at the same time from roughly then as well. They all have to be done before the first Mark 5 set enters service.

Don't forget that 185's will only be returned subject to Northen having enough stock to replace them. Thank Network Rail for the slow progress on the Manchester to Preston wiring project for that.

As much as I feel for the TPE commuters wanting more capacity, I secretly hope the return of the 185s is delayed again. Much nicer than 158s.

 

[DunfordBridge]

IMO where the 185s score is in terns of leg room and the sound of the engine. In terms of sheer comfort, the seat on the 158 is quite unrivalled. I would even think of having one in my lounge. Fact is, I drive a Rover 75 and the seats on the 185 are not enough to tempt me out of my car full-time. Have you ever sat in the driver's seat on a 185, that is like a revelation, best seat on the train?

On a separate issue, is it really so necessary for the 185s to be so bright inside? You can se them half a mile off, so much light pollution.

Anyway, better shut up before the moderators start desecrating the thread in bold red ink, just that I have my own ideas on how the new stock should look.

 

[Chester1]

On topic - is there an indication of when the Mark Vs will enter service? Is the target to have them in service by the December 2018 timetable?

 

[Rail Blues]

Today, I have travelled on class 158s and felt totally comfortable. I also work on a heritage railway where the seats have a higher level of comfort. Need I say more about the present state of British rolling stock?

Given that neither you nor I have sat on said seats, I'd say it says both parts of sod all about the state of British rolling stock.

 

[DunfordBridge]

On topic - is there an indication of when the Mark Vs will enter service? Is the target to have them in service by the December 2018 timetable?

I would have thought so although I am more interested as to when Northern will augment the services between York and Scarborough. I would sooner have an older train that turns up on time rather than a new one that turns up one hour late. I would have thought they may have released seating plans of the new stock by now.

 

[DunfordBridge]

Given that neither you nor I have sat on said seats, I'd say it says both parts of sod all about the state of British rolling stock.

Maybe you should have joined me on my journey to Sheffield on a Voyager, it was not a very happy experience.

 

[Rail Blues]

Maybe you should have joined me on my journey to Sheffield on a Voyager, it was not a very happy experience.

I've traveled many, many times on a voyager. They have a tendency to make me violently sick as they go through the southern uplands of Scotland, but I've never had a problem with the seats. Ever.

But quite what a DMU built nearly 20 years ago by a different manufacturer in a different country has to do with seat comfort levels in a set of loco hauled carriages currently under construction is totally lost on me.

 

[BeHereNow]

On topic - is there an indication of when the Mark Vs will enter service? Is the target to have them in service by the December 2018 timetable?

When were they originally due?

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

When were they originally due?

September 2017 according to the franchise agreement (both of the Mk3 sets, fully refurbished, for "unrestricted usage").

 

[driver9000]

First rake has been seen in transit by rail to Velim in Germany. At least I'm told the photo I have been sent was taken in Germany.