TPE Mark 5A coaching stock progress

[BMIFlyer]

Those vents look as if they're being highlighted by the sunlight in that photo, and won't seem as prominent all the time.

Regarding the formations which will obviously be pretty-much fixed, will there be provision for the 68 to run round and haul from the DTSO end if needs must? Whilst i appreciate that running round in the peak at Lime Street is unlikely, I've been on enough 91+mk4 sets that have departed correctly formed but had the loco switched to the front before Kings Cross, that it seems like something that might come in useful.

As I understand it, thunderbird provision is being looked at...

 

[Chester1]

There's a few things I could say to the above but I'm not going to bother as they are not particularly relevant to this thread.

Clearly these trains could be considered an alternative to the HST Short Sets for Scotrail, and Wales if you believe the rumours, what will be interesting is to see which proves the most reliable, the new train with single engine point of failure, or the modernised very old train without the single engine point of failure. It would also be interesting to know how the overall costs of each compare as well.

The one thing you can say is that in terms of basic kerbside appeal is these trains make HST's look like something out of the Arc.

The CAF factory in Newport opens at virtually the same time as the next franchise starts which I doubt is a coincidence. The Welsh Governments obsession with Holyhead-Cardiff services may encourage the two remaining bidders to propose Mark V sets and 195s to meet any remaining stock requirements for other services.

Very much so, look great although I feel that these are probably a coach too short from the outset.

Not too sure what routes these are working, and I’m far from a fan of doors at thirds, but the current stock allows for a large number of standing passengers, the doors at thirds also encourages people to move down inside the train and allows ease of movement that end doors do not.

Liverpool to Scarborough and Manchester Airport to Middlesbrough. The 802s are now for Liverpool to Newcastle and extensions of the service to Edinburgh. 397s for WCML services from Manchester Airport and Liverpool.

I agree they are probably one coach to short but there was an expectation that the follow on option for extra 397s would be invoked once electrification between Manchester and Leeds was done.

Funnily enough the stock ordered at the beginning of the franchise reflects what the franchise agreement says, and the expected infrastructure possibilities at that time. I for one think this is a very good solution to that requirement.

From memory I have a feeling it only talks about the franchisee's rolling stock solutions taking account of the future possibility of electrification.

The delays mean that its probably makes more sense to not order new units and instead wait until HS2 phase 1 opens and frees up most Pendolinos in 2026. With a very thorough refurbishment they would be OK for another 10 years use, although they would need coaches removing for any TPE route especially Airport services (max 8 coaches / a bit less than 200m).

I was on a refurbished 185 at the weekend, too. If anyone from that project has had a hand in the Mk5 interiors, then they should be very smart and comfortable places to be, I think.

First has stated that they want as close as possible to a uniform standard of interiors on all their TPE trains. Due to limitations on what can be retrofitted the 185 refurbishment should be the minimium level of comfort and facilities. I rather like the 185 refurbishment too and am quite hopeful for the Mark V introduction. I will make sure I ride an early service!

 

[Chris172]

Railcolor News has a few more nice photos of the first train on its way to Velim: http://railcolornews.com/2018/03/12/uk-caf-mk-5a-coaches-for-the-transpennine-express-to-velim/

Isn’t that the class 397?

 

[Domh245]

Isn’t that the class 397?

No, the buffers give it away as being Mk5, as does the lack of pantograph and second cab. The 397s are vaguely similar looking, but are further behind in development, testing and delivery.

 

[Chris172]

No, the buffers give it away as being Mk5, as does the lack of pantograph and second cab. The 397s are vaguely similar looking, but are further behind in development, testing and delivery.

I thought it was as there is a cab at the front or is that the class 68?

 

[Domh245]

I thought it was as there is a cab at the front or is that the class 68?

In service, there is one cab in the carriage rake (that can be seen in these photos) and then the 68 is the other cab. The 397 has a cab on either end, whilst the train in the photos only has the one cab end - the other end looks like this

 

[Chris172]

In service, there is one cab in the carriage rake (that can be seen in these photos) and then the 68 is the other cab. The 397 has a cab on either end, whilst the train in the photos only has the one cab end - the other end looks like this

So it’s acting like a DVT? Using one 68

 

[Domh245]

So it’s acting like a DVT? Using one 68

Correct, although it's more of a DTSO than a DVT, seeing as it's got passenger accommodation.

 

[BMIFlyer]

The first set of MK5A coaches has now reached 125mph on the Velim test track.

 

[hexagon789]

The first set of MK5A coaches has now reached 125mph on the Velim test track.

View attachment 44571 View attachment 44572 View attachment 44573 View attachment 44574

I can't get over how good that colour scheme is!

 

[61653 HTAFC]

The first set of MK5A coaches has now reached 125mph on the Velim test track.

View attachment 44571 View attachment 44572 View attachment 44573 View attachment 44574

Are those photos of the 125mph run?

If so, why was the loco was coupled at that end?

 

[The_Engineer]

Are those photos of the 125mph run?

If so, why was the loco was coupled at that end?

I'd imagine they will do it in both directions. For most tests it won't matter what the direction of travel is (ride characteristics, kinematic envelope)

 

[61653 HTAFC]

I'd imagine they will do it in both directions. For most tests it won't matter what the direction of travel is (ride characteristics, kinematic envelope)

Though presumably the behaviour of the vehicles might be (slightly) different depending on whether they're being pulled or pushed. Thinking about it though isn't there a 68 being sent to (or already at) Velím for testing with the Mk5s anyway? Which obviously couldn't be used for 125mph tests, but it makes sense to do those tests while they're at the facility.

 

[Bungle965]

Though presumably the behaviour of the vehicles might be (slightly) different depending on whether they're being pulled or pushed. Thinking about it though isn't there a 68 being sent to (or already at) Velím for testing with the Mk5s anyway? Which obviously couldn't be used for 125mph tests, but it makes sense to do those tests while they're at the facility.

I seem to remember they sent a 68 but it got turned back before it could enter France due to paperwork issues.
Sam

 

[Bletchleyite]

I can't get over how good that colour scheme is!

It really does suit, doesn’t it?

Window layout is a bit odd, I wonder why not all the same size?

 

[61653 HTAFC]

It really does suit, doesn’t it?

Window layout is a bit odd, I wonder why not all the same size?

There looks to be two different sizes of window. Most of them look to me to be the same size (the larger ones for the saloon) with a few smaller ones nearest some of the doors (nearest the door furthest from the camera, of the nearest coach in the first photo).

I don't think that's unusual generally.

 

[hexagon789]

Window layout is a bit odd, I wonder why not all the same size?

Can't say I'd noticed, I was too busy admiring the paint job!

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Presumably they can't test the driving trailer controls without a real class 68 at the other end?

 

[hexagon789]

Presumably they can't test the driving trailer controls without a real class 68 at the other end?

Presumably any suitably push-pull equipped loco would do.

The 68s use AAR I believe, so presumably the Mk5a coaches will as well.

 

[td97]

Interesting how the livery has a 'First company' sticker - I thought they did away with any reference to First on the re-liveried 185/350?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Interesting how the livery has a 'First company' sticker - I thought they did away with any reference to First on the re-liveried 185/350?

No, they have the same.

 

[james60059]

I can't get over how good that colour scheme is!

It really is eye catching, I certainly will make a few trips up North to get a few

 

[68011]

The 68s use AAR I believe, so presumably the Mk5a coaches will as well.

The only 68s that use AAR are the ones used by Chiltern (008-015).

 

[RJ21]

There looks to be a fair bit of space used in each carriage for something other than seating, especially that one at the rear in the first photo, do we think they learned the lesson of Voyagers and their disabled bogs in every carriage? And what is with those two half windows next to each other, deadlight seats it is. The livery works, but do the insides?

 

[Allwinter_Kit]

There looks to be a fair bit of space used in each carriage for something other than seating, especially that one at the rear in the first photo, do we think they learned the lesson of Voyagers and their disabled bogs in every carriage?

You never know, it might actually be adequate luggage provision for a change!

 

[ainsworth74]

And what is with those two half windows next to each other, deadlight seats it is.

I mean on another train on the network, the 185 coincidentally, they have odd sized windows to ensure that nearly every seat has window view (or at least an acceptable window view). Have a look in a 185 carriage and you'll see that there are few if any seats that don't at least have a partial view out of a window. Certainly nothing as bad a Voyager or Pendolino or an 800 where there truly are seats with zero view from a window.

 

[Bletchleyite]

There looks to be a fair bit of space used in each carriage for something other than seating, especially that one at the rear in the first photo, do we think they learned the lesson of Voyagers and their disabled bogs in every carriage? And what is with those two half windows next to each other, deadlight seats it is. The livery works, but do the insides?

It *looks* very much like the bodyshell was reduced to 22m from a standard 23 or 24m (not sure which) by shortening the sections containing those two windows. That said, the Caledonian Sleeper lounge coaches seem to have them all the same size, so I am intrigued.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I mean on another train on the network, the 185 coincidentally, they have odd sized windows to ensure that nearly every seat has window view (or at least an acceptable window view). Have a look in a 185 carriage and you'll see that there are few if any seats that don't at least have a partial view out of a window. Certainly nothing as bad a Voyager or Pendolino or an 800 where there truly are seats with zero view from a window.

That isn't so far as I know the reason for the bizarre window layout on those units, the Class 350 has fewer different sizes and still has good alignment other than the dense centre section airline seating. It just seems it's an awkward stretching of an existing 20m design which has required the addition of a few extra odd-sized ones to maintain structural rigidity.

 

[driver9000]

There looks to be a fair bit of space used in each carriage for something other than seating, especially that one at the rear in the first photo, do we think they learned the lesson of Voyagers and their disabled bogs in every carriage? And what is with those two half windows next to each other, deadlight seats it is. The livery works, but do the insides?

The end coach with the large blanked off area is the Trailer First End coach containing the galley kitchen and Guards accommodation at that end of the coach. There isn't a disabled toilet in each coach just one in the Trailer First coach. Coaches B-D have a normal toilet cubicle at the coach end. Coach B (working from the driving end) has cycle storage which explains the slightly odd window pattern on that vehicle. The space has been used really well according to the seating plans we've seen with between 59 and 69 seats in each standard class saloon.

 

[RJ21]

Thanks for that information, it explains the otherwise strange looking layout.