TPE Mark 5A coaching stock progress

[47802]

A casual observation the gap between the carriages looks quite large and the corridor connection looks quite long more like carriages of many years ago rather than modern carriages.

 

[bastien]

A casual observation the gap between the carriages looks quite large and the corridor connection looks quite long more like carriages of many years ago rather than modern carriages.

Is that because of the flat ends and lack of tapering toward them?

 

[fowler9]

A casual observation the gap between the carriages looks quite large and the corridor connection looks quite long more like carriages of many years ago rather than modern carriages.

I don't know. It looks bigger than modern high speed trains but not that different to stuff like 185's, 350's etc.

 

[47802]

Is that because of the flat ends and lack of tapering toward them?

Probably

 

[hexagon789]

The only 68s that use AAR are the ones used by Chiltern (008-015).

Do any of the other 68s have push-pull equipment?

 

[jopsuk]

So what Multiple working system do the TPE locos and DTs have then? Are we in "yet another standard" territory? The Chiltern ones got AAR as that's what the 67s have (in common with the 66s and 59s) so the DVTs were fitted with that (easier and more reliable than trying to fit compatible TDM to the 67s)

 

[jamieP]

So what Multiple working system do the TPE locos and DTs have then? Are we in "yet another standard" territory? The Chiltern ones got AAR as that's what the 67s have (in common with the 66s and 59s) so the DVTs were fitted with that (easier and more reliable than trying to fit compatible TDM to the 67s)

From my understanding the Mk5 DTs will use the normal multi working system fitted to all 68s.

 

[HSTEd]

From my understanding the Mk5 DTs will use the normal multi working system fitted to all 68s.

In other words, yet another standard territory

Wonderful

 

[Bletchleyite]

In other words, yet another standard territory

Wonderful

It is, but it's a bit less important because a rescue locomotive can just go on the front, it needn't push.

 

[37057]

In other words, yet another standard territory

Wonderful

Has there ever been a standard?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Has there ever been a standard?

It's more standard than anything else built in the last 20 years as it appears to have a drawhook and buffers on both ends as well as conventional air pipes. I wouldn't get hung up on whether a rescue loco can shove or not.

 

[dubscottie]

So what Multiple working system do the TPE locos and DTs have then? Are we in "yet another standard" territory? The Chiltern ones got AAR as that's what the 67s have (in common with the 66s and 59s) so the DVTs were fitted with that (easier and more reliable than trying to fit compatible TDM to the 67s)

If you look at the picture in post #451 it looks as if there are 2 small cables above the anti override plates for the 68/88 multiple working and a large cable in the centre which could be AAR so they may work from both systems.

 

[HSTEd]

Has there ever been a standard?

We've had things that came fairly close to standards on the railway at various times.

See Sprinter/Pacer/Turbostar, the antics of the Southern Region and blue star.

Ofcourse in america virtually all trains use the exact same MU standard.

 

[jopsuk]

We've had things that came fairly close to standards on the railway at various times.

See Sprinter/Pacer/Turbostar, the antics of the Southern Region and blue star.

Ofcourse in america virtually all trains use the exact same MU standard.

Sort of, though I think there's varients of the radio-transmitted version used when locos are at the rear and/or middle of long freights.

The standard is, of course, AAR, fitted to the 59s, 66s, 67s and some 68s.

 

[ScottDarg]

I seem to remember they sent a 68 but it got turned back before it could enter France due to paperwork issues.
Sam

Correct.

They then tried again and did get to France (as far as Frethun yard), but were sent back again and arrived in the UK yesterday. They're now being moved by road for transport by ship I believe.

Pic of 68019 being moved today: https://twitter.com/PaulBigland1/status/981512231040028673

 

[hexagon789]

From my understanding the Mk5 DTs will use the normal multi working system fitted to all 68s.

So they can only work with the 68s and 88s then.

 

[hexagon789]

The standard is, of course, AAR, fitted to the 59s, 66s, 67s and some 68s.

For diesels anyway, TDM is still used by the 90s and 91s.

 

[BMIFlyer]

So they can only work with the 68s and 88s then.

No, they can only work with the "TPE modified" class 68's. They don't use AAR on those 68's or on the MK5A's either.

 

[hexagon789]

No, they can only work with the "TPE" modified class 68's. They don't use AAR on those 68's or on the MK5A's either.

So they've got their own "non-standard" multi system then?

 

[dubscottie]

No, they can only work with the "TPE modified" class 68's. They don't use AAR on those 68's or on the MK5A's either.

So what is the big jumper cable for at the buffer fitted end? Its not ETS anyway.

It could be AAR to future proof them.

 

[43096]

The standard is, of course, AAR, fitted to the 59s, 66s, 67s and some 68s.

Class 70s (being of GE heritage) and the rebuilt GBRf 73/9s are also AAR fitted.

The AAR fitted to the 68s is only to allow operation with the DVTs, they are not multiple capable using AAR - that is only possible by the 68’s own Wire Train Bus system.

 

[HSTEd]

Class 70s (being of GE heritage) and the rebuilt GBRf 73/9s are also AAR fitted.

So how many multi systems does the 73/9 have now? Have they removed blue star or the Mark 1 southern region gear?

The AAR fitted to the 68s is only to allow operation with the DVTs, they are not multiple capable using AAR - that is only possible by the 68’s own Wire Train Bus system.

I'm not sure how the locomotive would even know what it was attached to to determine if it was allowed to use AAR or not..... but if so.

Who allowed this madness?

No locomotive or multiple unit should recieve type approval to operate in Britain unless it uses at least one of the multiple working systems from a very short list. Preferably no more than one system per train type.

This is just storing up problems for the future - especially with manufacturer lock in.

 

[43096]

So how many multi systems does the 73/9 have now? Have they removed blue star or the Mark 1 southern region gear?

They now have AAR and SR systems, with blue star removed.

 

[bastien]

Class 70s (being of GE heritage) and the rebuilt GBRf 73/9s are also AAR fitted.

The AAR fitted to the 68s is only to allow operation with the DVTs, they are not multiple capable using AAR - that is only possible by the 68’s own Wire Train Bus system.

Does that mean they're actually incompatible (in which case surely it is not actually AAR). Or is this just a case of no-one having done the necessary testing and certification?

 

[BMIFlyer]

So what is the big jumper cable for at the buffer fitted end? Its not ETS anyway.

It could be AAR to future proof them.

There is a new socket fitted on the 68’s on the buffer beam.

This is where the ‘big cable’ that you see on the MK5A will plug in.

The push pull system is called “CAF Control” and that is what the TPE only class 68’s have been fitted with.

 

[Domh245]

From memory the 68s are being retrofitted with forward facing destination displays, so they'll need some way of controlling those from the coaches, which I don't think is accounted for by any existing standard connector. I think there were other things that are fitted for TPE duties compared to other 68s but I can't remember what these are and if they'd need to be connected to the coaches to work.

 

[BMIFlyer]

From memory the 68s are being retrofitted with forward facing destination displays, so they'll need some way of controlling those from the coaches, which I don't think is accounted for by any existing standard connector. I think there were other things that are fitted for TPE duties compared to other 68s but I can't remember what these are and if they'd need to be connected to the coaches to work.

• Forward facing destination indicator (PIS screen) controlled from either cab on the loco or from the DT cab.
• Cab to cab communication (manual PA announce system and guard to driver talking)
• Bell buzzer system (guard to driver)
• Door interlock (so the loco can't move the train with the passenger doors unlocked)
• Forward facing camera (becoming standard in the UK anyway)
• Door controls, so that the driver can release the train doors instead of the guard (guard closes them).

Train Management System for the coaches is also fitted in the class 68 (so the driver can see faults as well as the guard seeing them).

The TPE class 68s have a modified cab desk fitted, with more stuff on it.

 

[87015]

I've just viewed 2 x 68 being taken through Usti nad Labem for Velim! Sadly no photo as we crossed them just outside

 

[Tam]

Photos from Velim today.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Photos from Velim today.
View attachment 45015

I still can't get over how good those look.