TPE Mark 5A coaching stock progress

[joshy.fre_2003]

Any particular reason for the sets now running under the 5XXX headcode instead of the 3XXX we had previously? Thanks

 

[AndrewE]

Any particular reason for the sets now running under the 5XXX headcode instead of the 3XXX we had previously? Thanks

Given that the headcode indicates the priority of the train (or used to, anyway) and the number of failures for various reasons -or false alarms - is getting to be significant, could it be that they are being downgraded because of their lack of reliability?
Class 5s were quite important because they were going to work a train: Class 3s were premium parcels or some such, with a customer waiting for the traffic. Maybe something out of the sidings could be used to substitute for a failed ECS?

 

[Erniescooper]

Given that the headcode indicates the priority of the train (or used to, anyway) and the number of failures for various reasons -or false alarms - is getting to be significant, could it be that they are being downgraded because of their lack of reliability?
Class 5s were quite important because they were going to work a train: Class 3s were premium parcels or some such, with a customer waiting for the traffic. Maybe something out of the sidings could be used to substitute for a failed ECS?

It was a class 5 because it wasn't a test run, it was a ECS move to Crewe LNWR so it could be used for some static training

 

[TBSchenker]

It was a class 5 because it wasn't a test run, it was a ECS move to Crewe LNWR so it could be used for some static training

An ECS move from Longsight to Crewe via Carnforth?

 

[TBSchenker]

No dragging brakes on 5K99. The computer flashed it up briefly and a stop was made to ensure that it was NOT actual brake drag. A further stop was made to confirm all brakes were released and they were. No brake drag on any occasion on 5K99.

I see.

I was on the train behind that was stood at Bay Horse. Just going on what the signaller told me why I was stopped.

 

[driver9000]

An ECS move from Longsight to Crewe via Carnforth?

An opportunity for the Driver Trainers to get some train handling in.

 

[driver9000]

Given that the headcode indicates the priority of the train (or used to, anyway) and the number of failures for various reasons -or false alarms - is getting to be significant, could it be that they are being downgraded because of their lack of reliability?
Class 5s were quite important because they were going to work a train: Class 3s were premium parcels or some such, with a customer waiting for the traffic. Maybe something out of the sidings could be used to substitute for a failed ECS?

Class 3 is also a "priority ECS" which took precedence over a class 5 or had to be kept to a certain pathing. Some ECS associated to passenger working run as class 3 to ensure they get to their destination in time for key workings. It's nothing to do with any perceived reliability issues surrounding the mk5A sets.

 

[BMIFlyer]

It's nothing to do with any perceived reliability issues surrounding the mk5A sets.

I do laugh at the wibble I read in here at times

 

[TBSchenker]

An opportunity for the Driver Trainers to get some train handling in.

So the first set has been fully commissioned and handed over to TPE?

 

[driver9000]

So the first set has been fully commissioned and handed over to TPE?

As far as I know this was to enable the set to be delivered to allow training to commence. It had TPE Driver Trainers at the controls.

 

[Ben Bow]

So the first set has been fully commissioned and handed over to TPE?

No, still in the testing phase.

 

[nicolaboo]

68025 and a tpe set were parked up near the mainline at Longsight for a short while around half 10 this morning. They'd moved down slightly when I returned from Stockport, so I don't know whether it just went back inside or not.
My first sighting and I'm liking the livery when you see it in person.

 

[driver9000]

View attachment 54000
68025 and a tpe set were parked up near the mainline at Longsight for a short while around half 10 this morning. They'd moved down slightly when I returned from Stockport, so I don't know whether it just went back inside or not.
My first sighting and I'm liking the livery when you see it in person.

It's gone back inside now after spending a couple of days on the wheel lathe road.

 

[EE Andy b1]

It's gone back inside now after spending a couple of days on the wheel lathe road.

Was this the set that got terminated at Crewe and moved to the diesel depot the other week with dragging brakes or another set.

Still not much mainline testing going on!

 

[The_Train]

Still not much mainline testing going on!

I've seen a few overnight paths between Manchester-Stafford-Warrington activated over the last week but it appears that all were cancelled.

 

[EE Andy b1]

I've seen a few overnight paths between Manchester-Stafford-Warrington activated over the last week but it appears that all were cancelled.

That's what I mean, not happening.

They have 6 Mk5a sets at Longsight and 4 Class 68s for testing and there must be new sets somewhere getting ready to arrive. You would have thought they would have a set out most days/nights now getting some mileage in.

Also when is the first set going to traverse the Pennines for clearance tests and other testing as required.

 

[The_Train]

I must admit, I thought I'd have got to see more of the units and locos by now but those on here who have access to more detailed information seem happy that everything is on track for a December introduction so I guess we just have to trust that information.....at least until December comes

 

[AndrewE]

I must admit, I thought I'd have got to see more of the units and locos by now but those on here who have access to more detailed information seem happy that everything is on track for a December introduction so I guess we just have to trust that information.....at least until December comes

How many paths (and drivers) are available for the intensive overenight running that this is going to need then?
Who knows the numbers to put into the sum
trainsets x number of miles needed / nights available
which will give us the miles per night that need to be run?
How many Manchester - Wembley- Glasgow - Manchester runs would be needed per night? (just picking a random long WCML spin that might be achievable.)

 

[BMIFlyer]

Also when is the first set going to traverse the Pennines for clearance tests and other testing as required.

You don't physically do clearance testing anymore as it's all done on computer - would be some very expensive scrapes on the sides of brand new trains otherwise.

The only real stuff to test across the Pennines would be the automatic selective door opening beacons which are now being fitted at TPE stations.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

You don't physically do clearance testing anymore as it's all done on computer - would be some very expensive scrapes on the sides of brand new trains otherwise.

The only real stuff to test across the Pennines would be the automatic selective door opening beacons which are now being fitted at TPE stations.

The mention of "TPE stations" is of interest, given the stopping services now operated by TPE. In normal service the Mk5a sets won't be calling at places such as Batley and Mirfield, but are the ASDO beacons also being fitted at such locations? Either to allow retro-fitting of ASDO to 185s or to allow the new stock to call there at times of disruption? These stations are of course still managed by Northern, despite Batley only getting one or two Northern calls per day. Not fitting the beacons would seem a retrograde step, but no doubt the cost of fitting them will attract the attention of the bean-counters.

 

[EE Andy b1]

You don't physically do clearance testing anymore as it's all done on computer - would be some very expensive scrapes on the sides of brand new trains otherwise.

The only real stuff to test across the Pennines would be the automatic selective door opening beacons which are now being fitted at TPE stations.

Clearance approval by computer nowadays makes sense but ASDO needs to be tested for real as you say.
Just wondering why when that test set returned from Czech Rep. via Immingham it was moved by road to Holyhead Aluminium and then reformed and then taken by rail to Longsight. Seemed very strange at the time, but clearance issues was muted.

 

[BMIFlyer]

The mention of "TPE stations" is of interest, given the stopping services now operated by TPE. In normal service the Mk5a sets won't be calling at places such as Batley and Mirfield, but are the ASDO beacons also being fitted at such locations? Either to allow retro-fitting of ASDO to 185s or to allow the new stock to call there at times of disruption? These stations are of course still managed by Northern, despite Batley only getting one or two Northern calls per day. Not fitting the beacons would seem a retrograde step, but no doubt the cost of fitting them will attract the attention of the bean-counters.

The stopper stations will have it fitted as well, my post refers to such locations as Seamer, Lea Green, etc (yes that is Northern too).

A few 185's have the full spec of ASDO fitted currently (controls, wiring, circuits, receivers), whilst others just have the wiring and associated circuits. All will be completed soon.

Regarding the new trains calling at stations, you still need ASDO at Seamer, Newton LW, Lea Green, Yarm, for these in normal circumstances.

ASDO also helps (or will) in the event of a station overrun or stop short, in preventing accidental opening of any doors that are not accommodated on the platform in question.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

The stopper stations will have it fitted as well, my post refers to such locations as Seamer, Lea Green, etc (yes that is Northern too).

A few 185's have the full spec of ASDO fitted currently (controls, wiring, circuits, receivers), whilst others just have the wiring and associated circuits. All will be completed soon.

Regarding the new trains calling at stations, you still need ASDO at Seamer, Newton LW, Lea Green, Yarm, for these in normal circumstances.

ASDO also helps (or will) in the event of a station overrun or stop short, in preventing accidental opening of any doors that are not accommodated on the platform in question.

Not wishing to be pedantic but unlike the smaller stations in the core, the ones you list are served by all (or almost all) TPE stations that pass. Only Batley is an "orphan" in the same way that certain XC only stations in the East Midlands are.

 

[BMIFlyer]

Not wishing to be pedantic but unlike the smaller stations in the core, the ones you list are served by all (or almost all) TPE stations that pass. Only Batley is an "orphan" in the same way that certain XC only stations in the East Midlands are.

I was listing stations where the MK5A sets will call and won't fit all the carriages onto the station.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

I was listing stations where the MK5A sets will call and won't fit all the carriages onto the station.

Ah, that makes sense. If the SDO is going in everywhere with short platforms, my concerns about Mk5a sets not being able to take special stop orders is probably unfounded... the big issue is TPE control not issuing the orders in the first place.

The issue of orphaned stations is for another topic really.

 

[swt_passenger]

Ah, that makes sense. If the SDO is going in everywhere with short platforms, my concerns about Mk5a sets not being able to take special stop orders is probably unfounded... the big issue is TPE control not issuing the orders in the first place...

In order for ASDO to fail safe, services normally have to run set up in ASDO mode for the full route. So you still need beacons at full length stations, set to allow the train to open all doors.

 

[BMIFlyer]

In order for ASDO to fail safe, services normally have to run set up in ASDO mode for the full route. So you still need beacons at full length stations, set to allow the train to open all doors.

That is exactly what is planned for TPE

 

[PennineSuperb]

The ASDO system fitted to the C68 & MK5a stock does not just rely on beacons, it also runs on GPS Data, Odometry and what are known as ''Station Bubbles" a bubble is 500m before the platform, and 10m beyond the platform (where ASDO shuts off for that station.)
A stop board is installed and trains must stop an X amount away from it (either 1 or 3m can't remember off hand.)
If the ASDO system fails or forgets where it is, it is possible to override the system in 3 ways.
1. MSDO - Conductor Open Back/Forward of the panel.
2. Driver Override - Front 2 coaches only
3. Driver Override - Driver selects the Station/Platform on the ASDO screen based on data in the system. S/He physically checks the train is on the platform by using the cab window or getting out and looking.
This system is different to that that is installed on the 185 fleet.

 

[SP Man]

The set that was outside the wheel lathe was set 4, that's been turned and now having static tests. Set 1 is at Crewe ATC for TPE tests. Set 2 remains at Crewe LSL for checks. Set 3 is still having static tests and work at MID with 5 and 6 at Longsight. It's intended that set 6 will be moved to MID this week coming. A few trains out this week but quite a number of the FLHH drivers are of to Velim to learn the class 397 EMUs.

 

[joshy.fre_2003]

The set that was outside the wheel lathe was set 4, that's been turned and now having static tests. Set 1 is at Crewe ATC for TPE tests. Set 2 remains at Crewe LSL for checks. Set 3 is still having static tests and work at MID with 5 and 6 at Longsight. It's intended that set 6 will be moved to MID this week coming. A few trains out this week but quite a number of the FLHH drivers are of to Velim to learn the class 397 EMUs.

The ever illusive 397’s.. weren’t we promised one delivered to us this month, any advances on that?