TPE Mark 5A coaching stock progress

[Marklund]

You see the high intensity headlight well before the yellow end, so no.

Not this old chestnut. :roll:

Summer heat haze, off the perfect straight, red zone working.
I'll have the yellow ends thanks.

 

[Bornin1980s]

Just don't cross a railway track.

 

[Marklund]

Just don't cross a railway track.

Helpful :roll:

 

[BMIFlyer]

Don't know why I have to keep posting this.....

The NEW TPE fleets - ALL OF THEM - will NOT have yellow ends, including the locomotives.

Such is the way these days that with the headlights, the high intensity negates the yellow ends. Even the marker lights are bright. When the 185s were being put into the new livery, the plan was for the yellow ends to be REMOVED. This was shelved as the RSSB paperwork was not done in time before the order for vinyls was placed, hence the front ends remain yellow, same for the class 350 fleet.

On a dull day from a far distance you DO see the very bright lights of a 185 for example before you see the yellow end.

Attached picture is the TPE class 68 loco livery.

Now please leave the enthusiast wibble talk behind and listen to those who work in the industry at a senior operational level who know about such things. :roll:

 

[Marklund]

Now please leave the enthusiast wibble talk behind and listen to those who work in the industry at a senior operational level who know about such things. :roll:

Oooooh! Get you!
Out on track much? :roll:

 

[BMIFlyer]

Oooooh! Get you!
Out on track much? :roll:

Every day that I work actually.

 

[47802]

Well I will wait and see.

 

[Marklund]

Every day that I work actually.

Same.

 

[TBSchenker]

I spent 9 years on the track, during that time the standards regarding headlights changed several times. By the time I was finishing the latest 66s were being delivered and the lights were super bright, visible well before yellow front ends.

The older stock, the yellow still warns before the headlights do.

But all this arguing about lights v yellow is quite petty.

With either, as long as you're in a position of safety 10 seconds before the train arrives what's the problem?

 

[TBSchenker]

When the 185s were being put into the new livery, the plan was for the yellow ends to be REMOVED. This was shelved as the RSSB paperwork was not done in time before the order for vinyls was placed, hence the front ends remain yellow, same for the class 350 fleet.

What modification has been done to the 185/350 headlights to meet the latest standards?

 

[Marklund]

I spent 9 years on the track, during that time the standards regarding headlights changed several times. By the time I was finishing the latest 66s were being delivered and the lights were super bright, visible well before yellow front ends.

The older stock, the yellow still warns before the headlights do.

But all this arguing about lights v yellow is quite petty.

With either, as long as you're in a position of safety 10 seconds before the train arrives what's the problem?

Having said earlier, heat haze, and not being on the straight, there's situational awareness.
In a time where safety standards are tightened, it goes against everything that's been delivered for on track safety, just so the designers don't have to paint the front end yellow. Removing it is petty, not complaining about it.

 

[GrimShady]

Don't know why I have to keep posting this.....

The NEW TPE fleets - ALL OF THEM - will NOT have yellow ends, including the locomotives.

Such is the way these days that with the headlights, the high intensity negates the yellow ends. Even the marker lights are bright. When the 185s were being put into the new livery, the plan was for the yellow ends to be REMOVED. This was shelved as the RSSB paperwork was not done in time before the order for vinyls was placed, hence the front ends remain yellow, same for the class 350 fleet.

On a dull day from a far distance you DO see the very bright lights of a 185 for example before you see the yellow end.

Attached picture is the TPE class 68 loco livery.

Now please leave the enthusiast wibble talk behind and listen to those who work in the industry at a senior operational level who know about such things. :roll:

I like that photo except the lack of yellow. Very smart looking train!

 

[TBSchenker]

Having said earlier, heat haze, and not being on the straight, there's situational awareness.
In a time where safety standards are tightened, it goes against everything that's been delivered for on track safety, just so the designers don't have to paint the front end yellow. Removing it is petty, not complaining about it.

If the last line of defence between being dead or alive is down to an individual noticing yellow fronts or lights then something has gone tragically wrong.

Network Rail Scotland have banned unassisted red zone working. Basically, you can not work as an IWA in Scotland without some form of protection.

The new kit lookouts have now where they can be positioned out of sight of the work group and give a warning via radio means they don't have to rely on yellow fronts or lights. Just when they see a train coming.

And as ever, lineside environments continue to be part of the risk assessment for the Safe System of Work. If due to heat haze the required sighting distance of oncoming trains can not be met satisfactorily, then the work is suspended or move up the hierarchy of Green zone working.

When I was first trackside I enjoyed the freedom of just nipping on to the track to do a job, relying solely on looking up every 5 seconds. During my time Health and safety (rightly) kicked in. Then paperwork dictated when and how I went trackside.

headlight standards are improving to increase visibility, but safe systems of work standards are tightening to avoid working 'red zone' without lookouts.

 

[Bornin1980s]

^Where did you get the image of the loco? Because that's by far the best looking example of the new livery I've seen. Not worrying about defining the end in yellow or black can make for better look, even though it makes the loco looks very foreign.

That said, if I were involved in the lawmaking I would not have dropped the requirement for a yellow end. I could never work on the track, but I am an aspiring photographer, and I can easily see how intense light would work in some circumstances, yellow in others. So, sorry to all the members who have no choice but to work on the line, especially the ones who don't agree with dropping the yellow. You do a great job, and it's terrible when we forget you exist.

 

[the sniper]

Now please leave the enthusiast wibble talk behind and listen to those who work in the industry at a senior operational level who know about such things. :roll:

Are you one of these 'senior operational level' types. You seem to be far enough removed from what people are saying on the ground to be one, disregarding criticism of this change as 'enthusiast wibble talk'. If more people on the ground actually knew about this change there'd be more fuss... As it is I can see many rail workers lineside/on or near the line finding out about yellow ends being eliminated the moment the first black front ended loco/unit looms over them.

Can you tell me what the actual discernible benefit is of removing yellow ends? Work on the basis that I won't accept saving money on yellow paint as an answer... It's a safety feature which has proven its worth, its presence is ingrained into the consciousness of people who work on or near the line, it's being removed because some marketing departments and enthusiast want subjectively prettier liveries... :roll:

 

[TRAX]

Like most countries, France doesn't have yellow front ends. Are we all dead ? No...

 

[Marklund]

Like most countries, France doesn't have yellow front ends. Are we all dead ? No...

What's France's standards for working on or near the line with them open to traffic, clearances for staff, etc?

 

[Marklund]

If the last line of defence between being dead or alive is down to an individual noticing yellow fronts or lights then something has gone tragically wrong.

Network Rail Scotland have banned unassisted red zone working. Basically, you can not work as an IWA in Scotland without some form of protection.

The new kit lookouts have now where they can be positioned out of sight of the work group and give a warning via radio means they don't have to rely on yellow fronts or lights. Just when they see a train coming.

And as ever, lineside environments continue to be part of the risk assessment for the Safe System of Work. If due to heat haze the required sighting distance of oncoming trains can not be met satisfactorily, then the work is suspended or move up the hierarchy of Green zone working.

When I was first trackside I enjoyed the freedom of just nipping on to the track to do a job, relying solely on looking up every 5 seconds. During my time Health and safety (rightly) kicked in. Then paperwork dictated when and how I went trackside.

headlight standards are improving to increase visibility, but safe systems of work standards are tightening to avoid working 'red zone' without lookouts.

RZ working still happens, and improvements are welcome.
Which makes the lessening of any standards for the sake of style, frankly bizarre.

 

[TRAX]

@Marklund: In France trains can run right next to workers, usually at reduced speed.

 

[222ben]

Nice 68 livery. How come there's a black front end? is that a new standard or something?

 

[absolutelymilk]

Maybe we could keep discussion of yellow front ends to the relevant thread here:

http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=124174&page=15

 

[507021]

Attached picture is the TPE class 68 loco livery.

Now please leave the enthusiast wibble talk behind and listen to those who work in the industry at a senior operational level who know about such things. :roll:

I really like that, very much suits the design of the locomotive.

 

[Stonesourscotty]

Silliest question i may ask but how many 68's are expected into tpe livery?

 

[GrimShady]

Are there plans to use these on the Glasgow Central TPE services in place of the current multiple units?

 

[Domh245]

Silliest question i may ask but how many 68's are expected into tpe livery?

I think that it is 9 that will be in the TPE livery but there will be a larger pool of locos that could be used (in DRS livery)

Are there plans to use these on the Glasgow Central TPE services in place of the current multiple units?

Those services are going over to the 397s IIRC.

 

[507021]

Those services are going over to the 397s IIRC.

That's correct Dom.

 

[Clansman]

I've no idea how the 397s are going to actually pan out, other than the few artist impressions that exist. Although they don't necessarily replicate the actual final designs by CAF (Crossrail's a fine example of this), they do look a bit commuterish given they are serving Intercity routes to Edinburgh and Glasgow.

I may be wrong, of course.

 

[507021]

I've no idea how the 397s are going to actually pan out, other than the few artist impressions that exist. Although they don't necessarily replicate the actual final designs by CAF (Crossrail's a fine example of this), they do look a bit commuterish given they are serving Intercity routes to Edinburgh and Glasgow.

I may be wrong, of course.

It's an interesting point you've made, because I've seen at least three different artist impressions of the new CAF stock for Northern, in each one the front end design has changed. Personally, I'm not going to cast too much of an opinion until we see a photograph of the real thing, which won't be all that long now.

 

[Clansman]

It's an interesting point you've made, because I've seen at least three different artist impressions of the new CAF stock for Northern, in each one the front end design has changed. Personally, I'm not going to cast too much of an opinion until we see a photograph of the real thing, which won't be all that long now.

It's like the Scotrail 385s, even Hitachi and the media continue to use the artist's impressions which don't resemble the real thing at all.

If you think we'll be seeing a photograph of the 397s anytime soon, knowing CAF, I wouldn't get your hopes up.

 

[507021]

If you think we'll be seeing a photograph of the 397s anytime soon, knowing CAF, I wouldn't get your hopes up.

Oh I'm not counting on a 397 photograph any time soon, but apparently the first two-car 195 unit is due for completion and testing at Velim in around ten or eleven months' time. I still can't believe it's next year Northern and TransPennine Express are getting new trains, hopefully there'll be more new stock (for either franchise) to look forward to in the 2020s.