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TPE Mark 5A coaching stock progress

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AndrewE

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The 4 mark 5's with the DVT and a Class 68 all in TPE livery is probably the smartest setup on rails in the UK at the moment, it looks amazing. The Class 800's and Class 397's look smart, but this is smarter.
I think they are garish, with a cheap sci-fi or fairground appearance. The invisible bogies (no outer frames) look more like accommodation bogies, maybe when they get dirty they will look a bit more substantial. The existing stock that also just has wheels sticking out don't look so flimsy somehow. Maybe the wheels are heavier, but it's probably not that.
 
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Mogster

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I think they are garish, with a cheap sci-fi or fairground appearance. The invisible bogies (no outer frames) look more like accommodation bogies, maybe when they get dirty they will look a bit more substantial. The existing stock that also just has wheels sticking out don't look so flimsy somehow. Maybe the wheels are heavier, but it's probably not that.

I quite like the 80s sci fi look 8-)
 
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I think they are garish, with a cheap sci-fi or fairground appearance. The invisible bogies (no outer frames) look more like accommodation bogies, maybe when they get dirty they will look a bit more substantial. The existing stock that also just has wheels sticking out don't look so flimsy somehow. Maybe the wheels are heavier, but it's probably not that.

Are you talking about the 800's of Mk5's? Either way, i will agree they do look flimsy but of course they are not. Surprisingly light though.

DVT = 32.9 Tonnes
TS = 31.56 Tonnes (T2)
Two More TS Coaches named T3 at 31.82 tonnes each.
TF = 32.62 Tonnes (T1)

https://www.railmagazine.com/news/fleet/first-transpennine-express-mk-5as-arrive-in-uk-1

This could be down to the "invisible bogies" as they must be a fair bit lighter than all steel on the outside of the bogies on the Mk3's.
 

Jonny

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Are you talking about the 800's of Mk5's? Either way, i will agree they do look flimsy but of course they are not. Surprisingly light though.

DVT = 32.9 Tonnes
TS = 31.56 Tonnes (T2)
Two More TS Coaches named T3 at 31.82 tonnes each.
TF = 32.62 Tonnes (T1)

https://www.railmagazine.com/news/fleet/first-transpennine-express-mk-5as-arrive-in-uk-1

This could be down to the "invisible bogies" as they must be a fair bit lighter than all steel on the outside of the bogies on the Mk3's.

Giving somewhere in the region of 15hp per tonne (with a Class 68) perhaps?
 

sprinterguy

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The 4 mark 5's with the DVT and a Class 68 all in TPE livery is probably the smartest setup on rails in the UK at the moment, it looks amazing. The Class 800's and Class 397's look smart, but this is smarter.
It's not a DVT, rather a DTS. There's room for passengers instead of luggage.
 
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Giving somewhere in the region of 15hp per tonne (with a Class 68) perhaps?

Coaches are 32.9 + 31.5 + 31.82 + 31.82 + 32.62 which equals 160.66 tonnes.
Plus 85 tonnes for the 68 = 245.66 tonnes.
3800 / 245.66 = approximately 15.5hp per tonne.

It should be quite a quick setup.
 

DunfordBridge

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Many thanks for that. I had hoped to get a picture with the long bench in view, but you’ve saved me a waisted journey! I did see Reliance at York on 03.01.2018 working 0B70 to Scarborough and stabled in York platform 2 this morning. Thank you again for the Scarborough info.
https://flic.kr/p/2dUk4Xm
View attachment 57580

No worries, Reliance was not going anywhere fast. I think it was boxed in at York platform 2 by a Northern Turbostar. We now have a different class 68 at Scarborough, 68 031. No idea when it arrived, I did not see anything out of the ordinary for Real Time Trains when I looked yesterday.
 

EE Andy b1

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What we need is a regular appearance of Class 68 with a Mk5a set on test or training runs over the Pennines to Scarborough and Middlesbrough.
Four months to the next timetable change. Do we think TPE will be ready for an upgraded service?

I've lost total confidence in any TOC to do a service as promised, there fault or not.
 

mikemcniven

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What we need is a regular appearance of Class 68 with a Mk5a set on test or training runs over the Pennines to Scarborough and Middlesbrough.
Four months to the next timetable change. Do we think TPE will be ready for an upgraded service?

I've lost total confidence in any TOC to do a service as promised, there fault or not.

Doesn't have to enter service at the timetable change, I think what will happen is they will just start to appear into service as and when they are ready. They have said "Spring" not May for entry into service.
 

sjpowermac

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No worries, Reliance was not going anywhere fast. I think it was boxed in at York platform 2 by a Northern Turbostar. We now have a different class 68 at Scarborough, 68 031. No idea when it arrived, I did not see anything out of the ordinary for Real Time Trains when I looked yesterday.
3x68 worked over from Manchester to York as 0B69 to York Siemens on Sunday morning. There was then a very short notice 0B65 12:04 York Siemens to Scarborough, which I guess must have been 68031.
 

Ben Bow

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The latest internal update indicated that TPE were planning on accepting the first Mk.5 set towards the end of February or early March. If that is achieved, and crew training follows, then the plan is for two 68 diagrams to be introduced from the timetable change in May on the Liverpool-Scarborough circuit. More diagrams will be introduced over the summer (including to Middlesbrough) as more sets are accepted and more crew complete their training.
 

LNW-GW Joint

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The latest internal update indicated that TPE were planning on accepting the first Mk.5 set towards the end of February or early March. If that is achieved, and crew training follows, then the plan is for two 68 diagrams to be introduced from the timetable change in May on the Liverpool-Scarborough circuit. More diagrams will be introduced over the summer (including to Middlesbrough) as more sets are accepted and more crew complete their training.

So only 5 months late on the original plan.
I hope CAF has enough cash in the bank to fund all the production, testing and acceptance delays.
They now have 5 part-built fleets in the UK (sleepers, Mk5, 195, 331, 397), some of which have been here for up to a year, and none have been accepted.
There must be in excess of 100 vehicles involved.
I guess it all depends on what the payment terms are.
 

Bertie the bus

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So only 5 months late on the original plan.

12 months late. We’ve been over this so many times and I thought the last time, when a TPE manager said it was pure fantasy they were to have been introduced from May last year until somebody found a post from him saying exactly that, would have settled the debate once and for all. Obviously not.
 

Ben Bow

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The update implied the mk.5's are 9 months late, due initially to production problems in Spain, and then issues thrown up during testing, such as the braking problem. CAF do have a lot on in the UK at moment and TPE are conscious of fact that their two fleets are not the only ones in the queue for attention from CAF engineers.
 

whhistle

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Out of interest, can the MK5s work with HSTs or other older locos?

Just thinking how quick it could be to knock some out and whether it would be a rescue for the MML route, who could aquire locos at the same time/later time.
 

SP Man

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Simple answer NO. They can rescused/hauled by a differant loco. The modified 68 have the required control over the doors, aircon etc. Any other loco would only have control over the brake and not be able to open doors, etc.
 

Spartacus

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Out of interest, can the MK5s work with HSTs or other older locos?

Just thinking how quick it could be to knock some out and whether it would be a rescue for the MML route, who could aquire locos at the same time/later time.

Nah, even a standard loco-hauled Mk3 can't work with power cars without work to one or the other, though I suppose something could be built in at the production stage, but then they might not be able to work with anything but power cars without modifications. They'd be a different fleet to both the TPE and Scotrail ones then.
 

samuelmorris

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I don't think it'd be cost-effective sadly - I see where you're going with that, PRM-compliant modern stock but with HST power cars, but completely redoing how Mk5s (or a similar product - there aren't many suitable for the UK at the moment that I'm aware of) are wired for HST use sounds like a pretty lengthy operation. Given you're already spending a lot of money on new unpowered rolling stock, for the time and effort required, you may as well order new DMUs instead.
 

Spartacus

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Especially as the majority of EMT's power cars are still fitted with VP185s rather than MTU engines.
 

samuelmorris

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I don't imagine any new Mk5s would be ready until late 2020 if they were ordered now, so presumably they could be used with GWR or LNER power cars as appropriate. Based on the reliability of the GWR units though, I'm not sure which is the better option - probably LNER but they'll be the last to become available, I suspect not until 2021.
 

SP Man

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Set 9 out tonight. MID to Stafford via Wilmslow and Crewe. Stafford to WBQ then back to Crewe only tonight. It then returns back from Crewe to MID via WBQ and Chat Moss to allow further low speed brake tests.
On Thursday it's off to Bletchley but will need to amend the route on either out or back to get the DT south facing again after it's turned tonight.
 

sjpowermac

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Two Yorkshire diagrams a day now with light engine 68s between York and Scarborough.

Pic of 0B67 arriving in York at 16:07

6C5F6D10-8BF0-4FEF-9F47-183E2D10A0E3.jpeg
 

68011

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Set 9 out tonight. MID to Stafford via Wilmslow and Crewe. Stafford to WBQ then back to Crewe only tonight. It then returns back from Crewe to MID via WBQ and Chat Moss to allow further low speed brake tests.
On Thursday it's off to Bletchley but will need to amend the route on either out or back to get the DT south facing again after it's turned tonight.
It went off route Tuesday morning whilst working 3B01...ran via Huyton!
 
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TBSchenker

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They are still doing driver training on the 68's between Crewe and Wavertree Junction and back to

All Manchester drivers should have been trained on the 68s by now, these 68 runs are to keep competency up as the 68s aren't yet in use . Every driver who has signed the 68s gets a day refreshing them every 4 weeks.
 

mikemcniven

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68032 along with set TP09 is on the Carlisle run this morning, but it's not any run, it's the first run of Fault Free running of these loco hauled sets. Still not clear how many miles it needs to clear to be approved.
 

sjpowermac

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68032 along with set TP09 is on the Carlisle run this morning, but it's not any run, it's the first run of Fault Free running of these loco hauled sets. Still not clear how many miles it needs to clear to be approved.
Thanks for this, Mike, now that is good news. A hopeful indicator that TPE training on the sets isn’t far away.
 
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