TPE Mark 5A coaching stock progress

[sjpowermac]

And 68027 on 1E25, loco on the Liverpool end.

 

[ic31420]

My first encounter with these this week.
Watched a nova 3 depart Victoria. What struck me as odd was the doors all seemed to close at different times when the call to close the doors came and the whole dispatch procedure seemed slow.

68030 was hustling along nicely at the back didn't strike me as absurdly noisy. Would perhaps have been better if the driver had waited 50m more before giving it full beans.

 

[47550]

More room, more seats and, er, time travel on TPEs new trains. Very impressive !

 

[Ben Bow]

Having made several journeys now on most of the sets which have seen service, I would make the following observations:

Nice interiors, very quiet compared to underfloor engined stock, as you would expect. Despite predictions, the locomotive can be heard in most of the coaches when under power, but not obtrusively. Seats OK, window alignment could be better, but if you do get a well aligned seat, the view is excellent. Not over keen on the air-con blowing up from the window sill, but so far it hasn't been too much of an issue.

Ride quality is "fidgety", the T-P route has some poor quality track which the bogies seem to struggle with, but on plain, good quality track the ride is acceptable. The coaches bottom out on their suspension quite dramatically, there's a bump in the track just west of Lea Green on the down which causes a very heavy thump down.

I'm not convinced by the end door layout for TPE's style of operation. Also, I was very surprised how narrow the entrances and vestibules are, very little room for standing pax during busy periods. Passenger flow on and off the train at busy times will be a big issue I would suggest, especially Picc platforms 13/14.

Overall? Nice train, a step up from 185's, but does it really suit frequent stop inter-urban operations? Time will show on that one.

 

[LOL The Irony]

And 68027 on 1E25, loco on the Liverpool end. View attachment 69325

Yet another great image.

 

[hexagon789]

Having made several journeys now on most of the sets which have seen service, I would make the following observations:

Nice interiors, very quiet compared to underfloor engined stock, as you would expect. Despite predictions, the locomotive can be heard in most of the coaches when under power, but not obtrusively. Seats OK, window alignment could be better, but if you do get a well aligned seat, the view is excellent. Not over keen on the air-con blowing up from the window sill, but so far it hasn't been too much of an issue.

Ride quality is "fidgety", the T-P route has some poor quality track which the bogies seem to struggle with, but on plain, good quality track the ride is acceptable. The coaches bottom out on their suspension quite dramatically, there's a bump in the track just west of Lea Green on the down which causes a very heavy thump down.

I'm not convinced by the end door layout for TPE's style of operation. Also, I was very surprised how narrow the entrances and vestibules are, very little room for standing pax during busy periods. Passenger flow on and off the train at busy times will be a big issue I would suggest, especially Picc platforms 13/14.

Overall? Nice train, a step up from 185's, but does it really suit frequent stop inter-urban operations? Time will show on that one.

The ride quality has been slated in a few places, as for the doors it's difficult to stroke a balance, but perhaps they'll adjust station dwells in future timetables to compensate?

 

[Ben Bow]

You can't really make dwell times much longer at Picc 13/14, the timetable can barely cope with them as they are now. Elsewhere, timings have already been eased to accommodate the mk.5's.

 

[sjpowermac]

The ride quality has been slated in a few places, as for the doors it's difficult to stroke a balance, but perhaps they'll adjust station dwells in future timetables to compensate?

You can't really make dwell times much longer at Picc 13/14, the timetable can barely cope with them as they are now. Elsewhere, timings have already been eased to accommodate the mk.5's.

I think there’s some variation in ride between the different sets. Certainly TP09 was very good when I sampled it on Saturday between York and Huddersfield, maybe there are tweaks to find the sweet spot with the sets.

 

[sjpowermac]

Yet another great image.

Many thanks, greatly appreciated. I feel very fortunate to live 10 minutes from the station in York

Here’s one of 1F76 the 17:44 Scarborough-Liverpool in the care of 68026 ‘Enterprise’ at York on the evening of 14.10.2019.

 

[ic31420]

I am trying to book some tickets for a trip to York from Man Victoria on the 26th Nov returning on 27th.

Any ideas on which services would be a good be for mk5s. Ideally Morning departure and mid to late afternoon return departure.


Would i be right in thinking the 0932 (from vic) to Scarborough and 1507 (from York) to Lime Street will be half decent bets

 

[tpjm]

Would i be right in thinking the 0932 (from vic) to Scarborough and 1507 (from York) to Lime Street will be half decent bets

If you want to travel on a Class 185!

Nova 3 workings off MCV toward SCA are currently the 0632, 0732, 1332 and 1432. Return work from YRK to MCV is currently 1038, 1138, 1738 and 1841.

 

[hexagon789]

You can't really make dwell times much longer at Picc 13/14, the timetable can barely cope with them as they are now. Elsewhere, timings have already been eased to accommodate the mk.5's.

Fair enough, didn't know they'd already tweaked the timetable

 

[hexagon789]

I think there’s some variation in ride between the different sets. Certainly TP09 was very good when I sampled it on Saturday between York and Huddersfield, maybe there are tweaks to find the sweet spot with the sets.

Perhaps as with the 80x, the suspension just needs some tweaks to get a better ride

 

[EE Andy b1]

Perhaps as with the 80x, the suspension just needs some tweaks to get a better ride

Don't know about tweaks but more use beds all components in properly which i think is what is happening.

 

[hexagon789]

Don't know about tweaks but more use beds all components in properly which i think is what is happening.

Hopefully once bedded-in they settle down a bit.

 

[stantheman]

Are they restricted to Scarborough to Liverpool , will they appear on other routes , thought I saw Holyhead on one of the diagrams ?

 

[EE Andy b1]

Are they restricted to Scarborough to Liverpool , will they appear on other routes , thought I saw Holyhead on one of the diagrams ?

TPE don't go Holyhead, so no you didn't.
Nova 3 are for Liverpool to Scarborough and Manchester Airport to Middlesborough for now.

 

[LOL The Irony]

Are they restricted to Scarborough to Liverpool , will they appear on other routes , thought I saw Holyhead on one of the diagrams ?

You're thinking of the 397's, which are stored at Holyhead for delivery.

 

[EE Andy b1]

You're thinking of the 397's, which are stored at Holyhead for delivery.

397s were never stored at the Aluminium plant at Holyhead, two sets arrived at Imminingham docks from Europe were road hauled to Holyhead re-formed into complete sets then dragged by rail to Crewe/Longsight by ROG locomotives.

 

[59CosG95]

397s were never stored at the Aluminium plant at Holyhead, two sets arrived at Imminingham docks from Europe were road hauled to Holyhead re-formed into complete sets then dragged by rail to Crewe/Longsight by ROG locomotives.

At a guess, was Holyhead chosen due to its route being cleared for Pendolino haulage (by VT 57/3s), and the 390s/397s having a vaguely similar profile?

 

[EE Andy b1]

At a guess, was Holyhead chosen due to its route being cleared for Pendolino haulage (by VT 57/3s), and the 390s/397s having a vaguely similar profile?

Could have been, also secure and easy re-railing ability in the sidings.

 

[37201xoIM]

Don't know about tweaks but more use beds all components in properly which i think is what is happening.

Agreed. I thought TP06 (behind 68028 today, done from LDS to MCV) was fairly smooth-riding actually, doubly so given the hammering the route has had courtesy of Siemens' rough-riding lardbutts! The 5A sets' riding qualities definitely do vary, anyways.

 

[BillBlue80]

Here are my thoughts on how the two compare. I have posted images/video of the Class 68 and Mk 5 in this post and I will make a separate post on the Class 802’s

What does the Class 68 hauled CAF Mk5 do better?

- The First Class on the Class 802, is basically standard class, with slightly wider seats in a 2+1, rather than 2+2 arrangement. On the Mk 5 stock the First Class felt Super Premium, at least as good as a Pendolino and not far behind that of the final GWR HST interior. The materials were really good, seats super comfy and I really liked little details like the lights blended into the table.



- The Passenger Information system on the Class 802 was surprisingly basic (No better than a Pendolino or Voyager). The CAF products have set a new standard in the UK. Bright coloured LCD panels, displaying the time, outside temperature, Real time information for both the service you are on and for trains at the destination station.



- Lighting is less harsh and less “white” than on the Class 802 and creates a more relaxing ambience. These differences are less significant in Standard Class than they are in first.

What the Class 802 does better?

- Far superior ride over the same section of track. Smooth with very little carriage roll. The CAF Mk5 really disappointed and felt as rough as the CAF 331 on this section of line. Lots of body roll and it was really hard to stand in the vestibule as we approached the station without holding on. Let’s hope they bed in but judging by reviews I’ve read about the Mk5 Caledonian sleeper coaches this may not improve significantly.


- Better alignment of table seats with windows, the CAF Mk5 may have more table seats but far more of these seats are poorly aligned.


- Leg room, even in first class I struggled to reach the window seat on the CAF Mk5 stock and had to lift the arm rests, no such problem on the Class 802. Very generous leg room in both Standard and First Class.


- Quiet and rapid acceleration (I only experienced the trains under electric power). The air conditioning system wasn’t as loud as that on the Mk5 stock or on the Pendolino’s. It was so quiet in fact I could easily overhear conversations at the opposite end of the carriage.


- I could rest my arm on the window sill (although it is narrower than a Pendolino). The annoying location of the air vent in the window sill of the Mk 5 carriages bothered me more than I expected. I instinctively kept trying to place my elbow onto the vents grill.


Where the trains are equal?

- Standard Class interior - the comfort of the standard class seats and standard of materials/finish in were very much par on both trains.


- Both have access at seat Plugs/USB sockets.


- Carriage noise (based on Class 802 under electric power and DVT coach of Mk5 stock) was very much on par.

Conclusion


If I was travelling to York from Merseyside, I would definitely favour the Class 802 if I was in Standard class, as the ride is vastly superior and I found the ride on the Mk5 (all be it not on the best section of track) to be distracting and an annoyance.


I loved the ambience of First Class on the Mk5, so if I was fortunate enough to travel First Class I would favour the Mk5 as it feels special.


I have yet to experience the Class 802 on diesel power, so the Mk5’s may well have a distinct advantage when it comes to noise levels, when crossing the Pennines. I found the DVT coach of the Mk5 stock (obviously the furthest coach from the Class 68) to be almost as quiet as the Class 802 (the difference being due to a fairly loud air conditioning system).


All in all however both trains offer a great improvement over the Class 185 Pennine Class and are true Intercity class trains.

 

[GoneSouth]

Here are my thoughts on how the two compare. I have posted images/video of the Class 68 and Mk 5 in this post and I will make a separate post on the Class 802’s

View attachment 69425

View attachment 69426

What does the Class 68 hauled CAF Mk5 do better?

- The First Class on the Class 802, is basically standard class, with slightly wider seats in a 2+1, rather than 2+2 arrangement. On the Mk 5 stock the First Class felt Super Premium, at least as good as a Pendolino and not far behind that of the final GWR HST interior. The materials were really good, seats super comfy and I really liked little details like the lights blended into the table.

View attachment 69427 View attachment 69428 View attachment 69429

- The Passenger Information system on the Class 802 was surprisingly basic (No better than a Pendolino or Voyager). The CAF products have set a new standard in the UK. Bright coloured LCD panels, displaying the time, outside temperature, Real time information for both the service you are on and for trains at the destination station.

View attachment 69430

- Lighting is less harsh and less “white” than on the Class 802 and creates a more relaxing ambience. These differences are less significant in Standard Class than they are in first.

View attachment 69431 View attachment 69432

What the Class 802 does better?

- Far superior ride over the same section of track. Smooth with very little carriage roll. The CAF Mk5 really disappointed and felt as rough as the CAF 331 on this section of line. Lots of body roll and it was really hard to stand in the vestibule as we approached the station without holding on. Let’s hope they bed in but judging by reviews I’ve read about the Mk5 Caledonian sleeper coaches this may not improve significantly.


- Better alignment of table seats with windows, the CAF Mk5 may have more table seats but far more of these seats are poorly aligned.


- Leg room, even in first class I struggled to reach the window seat on the CAF Mk5 stock and had to lift the arm rests, no such problem on the Class 802. Very generous leg room in both Standard and First Class.


- Quiet and rapid acceleration (I only experienced the trains under electric power). The air conditioning system wasn’t as loud as that on the Mk5 stock or on the Pendolino’s. It was so quiet in fact I could easily overhear conversations at the opposite end of the carriage.


- I could rest my arm on the window sill (although it is narrower than a Pendolino). The annoying location of the air vent in the window sill of the Mk 5 carriages bothered me more than I expected. I instinctively kept trying to place my elbow onto the vents grill.


Where the trains are equal?

- Standard Class interior - the comfort of the standard class seats and standard of materials/finish in were very much par on both trains.


- Both have access at seat Plugs/USB sockets.


- Carriage noise (based on Class 802 under electric power and DVT coach of Mk5 stock) was very much on par.

Conclusion


If I was travelling to York from Merseyside, I would definitely favour the Class 802 if I was in Standard class, as the ride is vastly superior and I found the ride on the Mk5 (all be it not on the best section of track) to be distracting and an annoyance.


I loved the ambience of First Class on the Mk5, so if I was fortunate enough to travel First Class I would favour the Mk5 as it feels special.


I have yet to experience the Class 802 on diesel power, so the Mk5’s may well have a distinct advantage when it comes to noise levels, when crossing the Pennines. I found the DVT coach of the Mk5 stock (obviously the furthest coach from the Class 68) to be almost as quiet as the Class 802 (the difference being due to a fairly loud air conditioning system).


All in all however both trains offer a great improvement over the Class 185 Pennine Class and are true Intercity class trains.

I think they look great, looking forward to trying them on my next trip to Manchester. We’ve certainly come a long way since the draughty damp BR coaches with their windows stuck open and everyone freezing around 1990.
I just hope the seats are more comfortable than the 80x ones I’ve sampled on GWR. They’re rock hard and too upright, not very relaxing at all. These first class ones look very smart indeed though

 

[EE Andy b1]

I just hope the seats are more comfortable than the 80x ones I’ve sampled on GWR. They’re rock hard and too upright, not very relaxing at all. These first class ones look very smart indeed though

Yes but these are Mk5a sets not Class 802s, different seats, check out @BillBlue80s TPE Class 802 review.

 

[BillBlue80]

I think they look great, looking forward to trying them on my next trip to Manchester. We’ve certainly come a long way since the draughty damp BR coaches with their windows stuck open and everyone freezing around 1990.
I just hope the seats are more comfortable than the 80x ones I’ve sampled on GWR. They’re rock hard and too upright, not very relaxing at all. These first class ones look very smart indeed though

It is incredible I had to pinch myself when I was travelling from Newton-Le-Willows on a derivative of a class of train the press branded a “bullet train”. I was the first to take to Twitter when a Class 319 was branded Northern Powerhouse to ridicule our cast offs but I genuinely can’t believe that I live in St Helens and will see Class 195/331, Class 802, Class 397 and Class 68 and Mk5 operating the majority of services in our borough.

We are fortunate to live on the M62 corridor and I completely recognise that makes us far luckier than the majority of the north. But to see where we have come from it is a positive! We have had to put up with some at best average and largely some extremely poor rolling stock for way too long.

 

[EE Andy b1]

We have have to put up with some average and extremely poor rolling stock for way too long.

Poor rolling stock and everyone else's castoffs, so it is about time i agree with you there.

 

[mikemcniven]

Some images from me on Saturday around Merseyside

68028 'Lord President' and set TP06 at Huyton


TransPennine Express 12806 by Mike McNiven, on Flickr


TransPennine Express 68028 by Mike McNiven, on Flickr

68027 'Superb' and set TP09 at Liverpool Lime Street


TransPennine Express 12809 by Mike McNiven, on Flickr


TransPennine Express 68027 by Mike McNiven, on Flickr

 

[BillBlue80]

Some images from me on Saturday around Merseyside

68028 'Lord President' and set TP06 at Huyton


TransPennine Express 12806 by Mike McNiven, on Flickr


TransPennine Express 68028 by Mike McNiven, on Flickr

68027 'Superb' and set TP09 at Liverpool Lime Street


TransPennine Express 12809 by Mike McNiven, on Flickr


TransPennine Express 68027 by Mike McNiven, on Flickr

Some great pictures

 

[Entertexthere]

Here are my thoughts on how the two compare. I have posted images/video of the Class 68 and Mk 5 in this post and I will make a separate post on the Class 802’s

View attachment 69425

View attachment 69426

What does the Class 68 hauled CAF Mk5 do better?

- The First Class on the Class 802, is basically standard class, with slightly wider seats in a 2+1, rather than 2+2 arrangement. On the Mk 5 stock the First Class felt Super Premium, at least as good as a Pendolino and not far behind that of the final GWR HST interior. The materials were really good, seats super comfy and I really liked little details like the lights blended into the table.

View attachment 69427 View attachment 69428 View attachment 69429

- The Passenger Information system on the Class 802 was surprisingly basic (No better than a Pendolino or Voyager). The CAF products have set a new standard in the UK. Bright coloured LCD panels, displaying the time, outside temperature, Real time information for both the service you are on and for trains at the destination station.

View attachment 69430

- Lighting is less harsh and less “white” than on the Class 802 and creates a more relaxing ambience. These differences are less significant in Standard Class than they are in first.

View attachment 69431 View attachment 69432

What the Class 802 does better?

- Far superior ride over the same section of track. Smooth with very little carriage roll. The CAF Mk5 really disappointed and felt as rough as the CAF 331 on this section of line. Lots of body roll and it was really hard to stand in the vestibule as we approached the station without holding on. Let’s hope they bed in but judging by reviews I’ve read about the Mk5 Caledonian sleeper coaches this may not improve significantly.


- Better alignment of table seats with windows, the CAF Mk5 may have more table seats but far more of these seats are poorly aligned.


- Leg room, even in first class I struggled to reach the window seat on the CAF Mk5 stock and had to lift the arm rests, no such problem on the Class 802. Very generous leg room in both Standard and First Class.


- Quiet and rapid acceleration (I only experienced the trains under electric power). The air conditioning system wasn’t as loud as that on the Mk5 stock or on the Pendolino’s. It was so quiet in fact I could easily overhear conversations at the opposite end of the carriage.


- I could rest my arm on the window sill (although it is narrower than a Pendolino). The annoying location of the air vent in the window sill of the Mk 5 carriages bothered me more than I expected. I instinctively kept trying to place my elbow onto the vents grill.


Where the trains are equal?

- Standard Class interior - the comfort of the standard class seats and standard of materials/finish in were very much par on both trains.


- Both have access at seat Plugs/USB sockets.


- Carriage noise (based on Class 802 under electric power and DVT coach of Mk5 stock) was very much on par.

Conclusion


If I was travelling to York from Merseyside, I would definitely favour the Class 802 if I was in Standard class, as the ride is vastly superior and I found the ride on the Mk5 (all be it not on the best section of track) to be distracting and an annoyance.


I loved the ambience of First Class on the Mk5, so if I was fortunate enough to travel First Class I would favour the Mk5 as it feels special.


I have yet to experience the Class 802 on diesel power, so the Mk5’s may well have a distinct advantage when it comes to noise levels, when crossing the Pennines. I found the DVT coach of the Mk5 stock (obviously the furthest coach from the Class 68) to be almost as quiet as the Class 802 (the difference being due to a fairly loud air conditioning system).


All in all however both trains offer a great improvement over the Class 185 Pennine Class and are true Intercity class trains.

Why does that PIS sound vaguely familiar to Google Translate...