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TPE Nova 1 Class 802/2 Progress

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Martin222002

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Apparently Hitachi wanted AnsaldoBreda's signalling business, but got the train building business thrown in for free.
Also by happy incident, AnsaldoBreda's Pistoia site had also been recently updated / upgraded for the Frecciarossa 1000 contract for Trenitalia, which is why in turn it made very simply to built any additional AT300 / 802 orders which were beyond Newton Aycliffe's & Kasado capacity. So while Hitachi had only wanted to purchased the Ansaldo STS signaling business, having got AnsaldoBreda, now Hitachi Rail Italy as part of it has worked very much in their favour, having also won an order for a large order of double deck EMUs for Trenitalia, as well as finishing the Frecciarossa 1000 order.
 
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Tetchytyke

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Newton Aycliffe was only built as political leverage to get the IEP contract ahead of established UK-based train manufacturers. That political capital won't last long. It'll be gone in five years.
 

Domh245

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It has been said elsewhere that the big bosses at Hitachi haven't been impressed by the quality of what Newton Aycliffe has been producing and have 'demanded improvements', and that TPE are quietly glad that their 802s aren't being built there. Make of that what you will
 

TRAX

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I can’t see Hitachi winning any mainland orders any time soon (apart in Italy because of the AB heritage).
 

HSTEd

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Newton Aycliffe was only built as political leverage to get the IEP contract ahead of established UK-based train manufacturers. That political capital won't last long. It'll be gone in five years.
Precisely, it was built as a cynical ploy to obtain the IEP programme order, and the second the IEP (and attached) orders are complete it will be put down

Assuming Hitachi doesn't use the threat of the negative headlines to extort more orders from scared politicians.
 

Chester1

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Precisely, it was built as a cynical ploy to obtain the IEP programme order, and the second the IEP (and attached) orders are complete it will be put down

Assuming Hitachi doesn't use the threat of the negative headlines to extort more orders from scared politicians.

If their combined bid with Bombardier wins the deep tube program then the factory is safe until 2030 although staffing levels would fluctuate. I am sure if Hitachi had bought an ex BREL site then rail enthusiasts would be keener on it! Until we start exporting trains again then our factories will be at the whim of UK ToCs and DfT.
 

LeeLivery

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If their combined bid with Bombardier wins the deep tube program then the factory is safe until 2030 although staffing levels would fluctuate. I am sure if Hitachi had bought an ex BREL site then rail enthusiasts would be keener on it! Until we start exporting trains again then our factories will be at the whim of UK ToCs and DfT.

The problem is I can't see Newton Aycliffe actually exporting anything. Strategically, Hitachi's Italy plant will be far more important and easier for continental exports (if they win any). They aren't going to ever export to the Americas or Asia, and Africa is buying Chinese. Teaming up with Bombardier was sensible, however, its days are still numbered.
 

Chester1

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The problem is I can't see Newton Aycliffe actually exporting anything. Strategically, Hitachi's Italy plant will be far more important and easier for continental exports (if they win any). They aren't going to ever export to the Americas or Asia, and Africa is buying Chinese. Teaming up with Bombardier was sensible, however, its days are still numbered.

If they win the deep tube contract then it gives more than a decade for global trends to change and out last the likely huge drop in orders during the 2020s once the current boom is over. Its impossible to know what the situation will be in 2030.
 

Tetchytyke

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I am sure if Hitachi had bought an ex BREL site then rail enthusiasts would be keener on it!

I'd be keener on it if Hitachi actually built the trains in the UK, using the UK's supply chain, rather than shipping literally everything in from Japan.

Assembling a Meccano set is not manufacturing. Newton Aycliffe is nothing more than a political sop.
 

LeeLivery

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If they win the deep tube contract then it gives more than a decade for global trends to change and out last the likely huge drop in orders during the 2020s once the current boom is over. Its impossible to know what the situation will be in 2030.

True, however, correct me if I'm wrong, but British plants have exported just one fleet (Gautrain) since Major's privatisation. Even if global trends change, history isn't on our side. Bombardier, Siemens, Hitachi and CAF can't all survive on British orders alone and they all have continental plants. How much work will actually be done in Newton if they win the Tube contract?
 

Chester1

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I'd be keener on it if Hitachi actually built the trains in the UK, using the UK's supply chain, rather than shipping literally everything in from Japan.

Assembling a Meccano set is not manufacturing. Newton Aycliffe is nothing more than a political sop.

Directly employing aproximately 1000 people in high skilled jobs in an economically depressed area matters.

True, however, correct me if I'm wrong, but British plants have exported just one fleet (Gautrain) since Major's privatisation. Even if global trends change, history isn't on our side. Bombardier, Siemens, Hitachi and CAF can't all survive on British orders alone and they all have continental plants. How much work will actually be done in Newton if they win the Tube contract?

CAF will employ 300 people in Newport and based on a comparison with Newton Aycliffe that would be assembling about 100 coaches per year. Its a nice boost for the area but it will be tiny compared with Bombardier making 1000+ coaches per year. CAF appear to have cornered the UK DMU market, have a viable EMU product for the UK and are a major producer of light rail units. They don't need to win many orders and I bet that the Welsh Government will make sure that the winning franchise bidder happens to choose CAF. I don't know how much work would be done at Newton Aycliffe but the deep tube replacement potentially means work on 2500 carriages. Even if Bombardier do most of the manufacturering and Hitachi just assemble them then that would be plenty of work to keep the factory open, although maybe with fewer staff.

I agree the outlook for exports is poor but there is plenty of time for things to change and they only way for train exporting to change is going up!
 

LNW-GW Joint

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We don't export complete aircraft any more either, but we are still a leader (ie design, development and production) in aircraft engines and wings for the world market.
 

corsaVXR

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I'd be keener on it if Hitachi actually built the trains in the UK, using the UK's supply chain, rather than shipping literally everything in from Japan.

Assembling a Meccano set is not manufacturing. Newton Aycliffe is nothing more than a political sop.
It's stupid to set up a brand new factory on that sort of scale and leaving them to completely manage their own suppliers from the get go.

Far better to start off with having partial responsibility, and hand over more and more responsibility as time progresses.
 

LNW-GW Joint

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I didn't realise this is an aeronautics thread....

The point is that rail could follow the aeronautics industry and specialise in components.
The main thing is to build up some UK-based IPR.
Screwing together somebody else's design of body/engine/traction package/bogies is not going to lead anywhere in the long run.
 

modernrail

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If they don't win the Tube order, is the most likely future for Newton Aycliffe as a service centre for the IEP and IEP variant fleets? They will have the people that know the trains and there are enough of this fleet that additional capacity to ease pressure on existing depots might turn out to be very useful.
 

Chester1

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If they don't win the Tube order, is the most likely future for Newton Aycliffe as a service centre for the IEP and IEP variant fleets? They will have the people that know the trains and there are enough of this fleet that additional capacity to ease pressure on existing depots might turn out to be very useful.

There is also the HS2 order that Hitachi has been shortlisted for and smaller orders for bi modes e.g. MML + CrossCountry and once they sort out the windscreen problem possibly orders for 385s. If orders dry up I think your right though, its the route Alstom have chosen and Siemens appear to be choosing for Goole. Hitachi will want to be able to make trains in the UK at short notice.
 

SeanG

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If Newton Aycliffe becomes the service centre for Hitachi units (which are predominantly electric), would thre be merit in Hitachi funding the wiring from Darlo to their plant?
 

D365

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If Newton Aycliffe becomes the service centre for Hitachi units (which are predominantly electric), would thre be merit in Hitachi funding the wiring from Darlo to their plant?

The Class 80x fleets can all propel themselves on diesel... can’t imagine Classes 385 and 395 would be visiting often enough to make it economical.
 

Ih8earlies

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"Unit T1 of our Nova fleet is currently on the Talisman carrier, has passed through the Panama canal and is now docked up at Dundalk, near Baltimore, Maryland USA, and will soon begin the journey across the Atlantic arriving next month."
 

Ih8earlies

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I've heard a rumour that the first Transpennine 802 unit has arrived into a UK port.

Can anyone confirm?
 

Ih8earlies

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According to the latest internal "Fleet Update" testing of the first Nova 1 will be starting in the UK this summer (Doesn't get any more specific than that!) - the unit will be based at Hitachi's Doncaster depot. Interestingly it goes on to say that the internals are a "temporary interior" to show the layout. The final interior look won't be applied until next year on completion of testing.

Also the second Nova 1 is expected to arrive in the UK in August.
 
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According to the latest internal "Fleet Update" testing of the first Nova 1 will be starting in the UK this summer (Doesn't get any more specific than that!) - the unit will be based at Hitachi's Doncaster depot. Interestingly it goes on to say that the internals are a "temporary interior" to show the layout. The final interior look won't be applied until next year on completion of testing.

Also the second Nova 1 is expected to arrive in the UK in August.

Any timescale on when we could see, dare I say, a livery? Would seem logical and good PR for TPE to line up their new trains in the livery, once the 397’s are in the country that is. Mk5 sets are coming with it on and with the 802 being at Doncaster currently, why wouldn’t they?
 

Bletchleyite

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Any timescale on when we could see, dare I say, a livery? Would seem logical and good PR for TPE to line up their new trains in the livery, once the 397’s are in the country that is. Mk5 sets are coming with it on and with the 802 being at Doncaster currently, why wouldn’t they?

Must admit I don't get why almost all the Hitachi stock is just delivered in white. Because of the shape around the crew doors the vinyls look a terrible half-job.
 

jimm

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Must admit I don't get why almost all the Hitachi stock is just delivered in white. Because of the shape around the crew doors the vinyls look a terrible half-job.

The TPE sets are not white - they are painted in the grey base colour of the TPE livery.

All the 802s ordered by GWR via leasing companies are painted in GWR green.

The Scotrail Class 385s emus have a coat of blue paint.

The Hull Trains 802s look likely to have a shade of blue as the bodyshell colour, going by the artist's impression
 
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