TPE Nova 3 (Class 68 + Mk5s) updates and withdrawal from service

[BeHereNow]

Just a prediction. They won't get 12 in for May.

 

[sjpowermac]

Just a prediction. They won't get 12 in for May.

I’ve not heard of any plans beyond having all the Scarborough turns in place by next spring.

Feel free to predict whatever pleases you most.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

I’ve not heard of any plans beyond having all the Scarborough turns in place by next spring.

Feel free to predict whatever pleases you most.

Should we really be congratulating this though? If we think about when they were supposed to be introduced in late 2018, and now by mid 2020 they won’t even have a full roll out (Redcar services), I don’t consider that to be particularly outstanding progress.

 

[DannyMich2018]

I’ve not heard of any plans beyond having all the Scarborough turns in place by next spring.

Feel free to predict whatever pleases you most.

Just a prediction. They won't get 12 in for May.

Next May will be 2 years since the first one arrived...How long to get just 13 trains in service (be 12 diagrams). I know most new train introductions have been delayed/slow recently but this is truly awful.

 

[sjpowermac]

Next May will be 2 years since the first one arrived...How long to get just 13 trains in service (be 12 diagrams). I know most new train introductions have been delayed/slow recently but this is truly awful.

I think you’ve already expressed that opinion earlier, and had a response

Well if you think you can sort the issues out quicker, please do. I'd love more sets in service.

I’m quite sure that the people involved are working really hard to deliver.

As I understand it from having followed the thread there have been the following problems along the way:

1. Testing at the Velim test track wasn’t as extensive as had been hoped due to the number of new train types being tested there.
2. There were problems with the braking system that TPE specified and which Knorr-Bremse designed to that specification.
3. The interface between loco and stock proved particularly difficult since there is not only the standard link for traction but also things such as ASDO and driver operation of the doors.
4. Some of the systems can only be tested in the UK e.g. ASDO.
5. Once the first set was handed over to TPE on 12.04.2019 driver training commenced in early May but was pulled shortly after due to software problems.

As explained previously, the Nova 3 sets are now to some extent ‘at the back of the queue’ since TPE have given priority to Nova 1 (timetable/franchise commitment to extend Liverpool Newcastle trains through to Edinburgh) and Nova 2 (due to Class 350 going off lease).

@DannyMich2018
I’ve summarised for you what I’ve learned from the forum but there’s little point in complaining to me, I don’t work for any of the companies involved. Perhaps you could write to TPE and let us know how you get on?

 

[DannyMich2018]

I think you’ve already expressed that opinion earlier, and had a response

I’m quite sure that the people involved are working really hard to deliver.

As I understand it from having followed the thread there have been the following problems along the way:

1. Testing at the Velim test track wasn’t as extensive as had been hoped due to the number of new train types being tested there.
2. There were problems with the braking system that TPE specified and which Knorr-Bremse designed to that specification.
3. The interface between loco and stock proved particularly difficult since there is not only the standard link for traction but also things such as ASDO and driver operation of the doors.
4. Some of the systems can only be tested in the UK e.g. ASDO.
5. Once the first set was handed over to TPE on 12.04.2019 driver training commenced in early May but was pulled shortly after due to software problems.

As explained previously, the Nova 3 sets are now to some extent ‘at the back of the queue’ since TPE have given priority to Nova 1 (timetable/franchise commitment to extend Liverpool Newcastle trains through to Edinburgh) and Nova 2 (due to Class 350 going off lease).

@DannyMich2018
I’ve summarised for you what I’ve learned from the forum but there’s little point in complaining to me, I don’t work for any of the companies involved. Perhaps you could write to TPE and let us know how you get on?

Apologies but I'm not complaining to you. Just stating that its disappointing that these trains are taking a lot of time to introduce compared to many others. But hey I'm sure once they've all been introduced passengers will really benefit from more space and quieter travelling environmental. With Class 397 been priority and no non-prm trains in the fleet no real rush to get all in service yet.

 

[FFFC 57]

Just a prediction. They won't get 12 in for May.

Hmmm. That's a bold prediction, let's hope TPE don't share your pessimism.

 

[Ben Bow]

Hmmm. That's a bold prediction, let's hope TPE don't share your pessimism.

TPE need to be neither optimistic nor pessimistic but realistic, sadly at the moment I fear there is much burying of heads in sand....

 

[D6700]

TPE need to be neither optimistic nor pessimistic but realistic, sadly at the moment I fear there is much burying of heads in sand....

Which is reflected in their TV adverts - Mr Sandman

 

[sjpowermac]

Which is reflected in their TV adverts - Mr Sandman

Good call

Looking at recent weeks, I suspect they might need more than a bucket and spade to dig themselves out

 

[Bevan Price]

I think the first priority for TPE should be to actually run the advertised timetable. Crew training for the new trains should be second priority. According to RTT, 8 TPE departures from Liverpool were cancelled yesterday (21 Nov.), and last time I checked, 5 had been cancelled today (22 Nov.)

 

[Ben Bow]

I'm not too sure prospective passengers for the 22.46 Scarborough-Manchester will be very impressed with their "new train" this evening - it's a bus... as is regularly the case.

 

[sjpowermac]

I'm not too sure prospective passengers for the 22.46 Scarborough-Manchester will be very impressed with their "new train" this evening - it's a bus... as is regularly the case.

An interesting one from this morning. 1E23 arrived at Holgate 08:08, but didn’t arrive in the station until 08:24.

Without inside knowledge it’s hard to say exactly the reason for the delay but it looks like 1E23 had to wait for the RHTT train to come through platforms 4 and 3 before it was then able to terminate short.

Either way up, an 18 minute delay at Leeds turned into a 41 minute late arrival at York.

Not really TPEs fault, but that must have been something of a frustrating commute!

 

[D6700]

I didn't observe any of this, but I am aware that LNER's 1S02 terminated at York, meaning one less available platform until it eventually left ECS.

During leaf fall period, trains from Scarborough are not normally permitted to arrive into Platform 5, so had 1E23 gone straight into Platform 4, the RHTT wouldn't have been able to get in, which would also have trapped a passenger train behind it.

With so many trains and so little infrastructure, when things go wrong, there is very little to play with and, sadly, something has to give.

 

[The Northern Star]

Nova Fleet Service Update 23/11/2019

Good Morning,

The following diagrams will be operated by our new Nova fleet today:

• Diagram: LT701 Loco: 68026 Rake: TP11
First Class at start of day: TBC
1F48 05:55 MCV-LIV
1E25 06:56 LIV-SCA
1F62 10:41 SCA-LIV
1E39 13:56 LIV-SCA
1F76 17:44 SCA-LIV
1J53 20:56 LIV-SYB

 

[Solent&Wessex]

I think the first priority for TPE should be to actually run the advertised timetable. Crew training for the new trains should be second priority.

If that was the case then the new fleets would probably never enter service!

Like most companies TPE will rely on overtime and rest day working just to cover the normal day to day timetable. There are only so many drivers / guards willing to work overtime, and once you've used everyone what do you do? Take people off the training course so they drive trains and then their training gets delayed and potentially they have to start the course all over again? In the long run that costs more and creates far greater problems - such as training never getting done!

 

[Ben Bow]

Unfortunately, TPE aren't "most companies". In reflection of the fact that there was a large training programme required, and, once in service, spare cover would need to rise significantly since there will be traction specific links without the ability to cross cover, a large number of drivers have been recruited.. too late, despite knowing about the requirements for years. So, many of the drivers who should be covering for training, are still, in fact, in training themselves. Yes, there are external factors which have affected TPE, but many of the issues which TPE face are down to poor/invisible leadership at the very top of the company and constant changes of direction. For example, with three weeks to go before TPE start to serve Redcar there is still no concrete plan on how that will be achieved, route learning having yet to commence in earnest, due, in part to training requirements elsewhere.

 

[The Northern Star]

Nova Fleet Service Update 25/11/2019 *802 cancellations*

Good Morning,

The following diagrams will be operated by our new Nova fleet today:

Nova 3: 1 Passenger Diagram In Service Today
• Diagram: LT705 Loco: Rake: will be formed from 185 unit today
1E23 05:56 LIV-SCA
1F60 09:41 SCA-LIV
1E37 12:56 LIV-SCA
1F74 16:44 SCA-LIV
1E51 19:56 LIV-SCA
1P98 22:46 SCA-LIV
• Diagram: LT701 Loco:68026 Rake: TP11
First Class at start of day: TBC
1F48 05:55 MCV-LIV
1E25 06:56 LIV-SCA
1F62 10:41 SCA-LIV
1E39 13:56 LIV-SCA
1F76 17:44 SCA-LIV
1J53 20:56 LIV-SYB

 

[Spartacus]

That’s a shame as I’ve ended up on 1E23 due to other late running services.

Worth noting that at Leeds passengers are now spreading themselves out over the length of the platform, just a pity it was a 185 rather then Nova 3 so a good proportion had to walk along when it pulled in.

 

[The Northern Star]

[
Nova Fleet Service Update 26/11/2019

Good Morning,

The following diagrams will be operated by our new Nova fleet today:

Nova 3: 1 Passenger Diagram In Service Today
• Diagram: LT705 Loco: Rake: will be formed from 185 unit today

• Diagram: LT701 Loco:68028 Rake: TP06
First Class at start of day: TBC
1F48 05:55 MCV-LIV
1E25 06:56 LIV-SCA
1F62 10:41 SCA-LIV
1E39 13:56 LIV-SCA
1F76 17:44 SCA-LIV
1J53 20:56 LIV-SYB

• Diagram: LT705 Loco: 68026 Rake: TP11
First Class at start of day: East end
1E23 05:56 LIV-SCA
1F60 09:41 SCA-LIV
1E37 12:56 LIV-SCA
1F74 16:44 SCA-LIV
1E51 19:56 LIV-SCA
1P98 22:46 SCA-MAN

 

[xotGD]

Number 28 on 1E23 with loco on the back.

 

[The Northern Star]

Nova 3 : 2 Passenger Diagram In Service Today

• Diagram: LT701 Loco:68026 Rake: TP11
First Class at start of day: East end
1F48 05:55 MCV-LIV
1E25 06:56 LIV-SCA
1F62 10:41 SCA-LIV
1E39 13:56 LIV-SCA
1F76 17:44 SCA-LIV
1J53 20:56 LIV-SYB


• Diagram: LT705 Loco: 68028 Rake: TP06
First Class at start of day: West end
1E23 05:56 LIV-SCA
1F60 09:41 SCA-LIV
1E37 12:56 LIV-SCA
1F74 16:44 SCA-LIV
1E51 19:56 LIV-SCA
1P98 22:46 SCA-MAN

 

[The Northern Star]

Nova 3 : 2 Passenger Diagram In Service Today

• Diagram: LT701 Loco:68026 Rake: TP11
First Class at start of day: TBC
1F48 05:55 MCV-LIV
1E25 06:56 LIV-SCA
1F62 10:41 SCA-LIV
1E39 13:56 LIV-SCA
1F76 17:44 SCA-LIV
1J53 20:56 LIV-SYB

• Diagram: LT705 Loco: 68028 Rake: TP06
First Class at start of day: East end
1E23 05:56 LIV-SCA
1F60 09:41 SCA-LIV
1E37 12:56 LIV-SCA
1F74 16:44 SCA-LIV
1E51 19:56 LIV-SCA
1P98 22:46 SCA-MAN

 

[E100]

Many thanks - looking forward to 1F60 from york in 1st class.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Set swap; 11.38 at York is 68 030 + TP12. I think that's the 10.41 off Scarborough?

 

[fowler9]

Set swap; 11.38 at York is 68 030 + TP12. I think that's the 10.41 off Scarborough?

I hope so. Just had Lord President. Would be nice to have another new one.

 

[Bletchleyite]

It looks like the answer is yes at least for Saturday given the above, but anyway...as per the Nova 1 thread I'll be going Bletchley-Manchester-York on Saturday and returning Sunday, using walk-up tickets and very flexible on timings and would love to get one of each of Nova 1 and 3 in to see what I think. Will these run on Saturday, Sunday or both?

 

[The Northern Star]

It looks like the answer is yes at least for Saturday given the above, but anyway...as per the Nova 1 thread I'll be going Bletchley-Manchester-York on Saturday and returning Sunday, using walk-up tickets and very flexible on timings and would love to get one of each of Nova 1 and 3 in to see what I think. Will these run on Saturday, Sunday or both?

Why not the Nova 2?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Why not the Nova 2?

Because I'd have a job trying to get one of those in while travelling from Bletchley to Leeds via Manchester unless I took an incredibly roundabout route via the Bentham Line or something?

I might well go and seek one out over Christmas though.

 

[The Northern Star]

Because I'd have a job trying to get one of those in while travelling from Bletchley to Leeds via Manchester unless I took an incredibly roundabout route via the Bentham Line or something?

I might well go and seek one out over Christmas though.

Bletchley - Piccadilly.... they do pass thro Picc....