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TPE Nova 3 (Class 68 + Mk5s) updates and withdrawal from service

ash39

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Nova 3: NO Passenger Diagrams Today
• Diagram: LT705 Loco: 68028 Rake: TP12
First Class at start of day: N/A
1E23 05:56 LIV-SCA (CANX) FAULT
1F60 09:41 SCA-LIV (CANX) FAULT
1E37 12:56 LIV-SCA (CANX) FAULT
1F74 16:44 SCA-LIV (CANX) FAULT
1E51 19:56 SCA-LIV (CANX) FAULT
• Diagram: LT701 Loco: 68022 Rake: TP13
First Class at start of day: N/A
1F48 05:55 MCV-LIV (CANX) FAULT
1E25 06:56 LIV-SCA (CANX) FAULT
1F62 10:41 SCA-LIV (CANX) FAULT
1E39 13:56 LIV-SCA (CANX) FAULT
1F76 17:44 SCA-LIV (CANX) FAULT
1J53 20:56 LIV-SYB (CANX) FAULT

Two diagrams cancelled on probably the busiest Saturday of the year is a disgrace. I can sympathise to an extent with the training/crowing issues, but TPE have 6-7 sets accepted now so to cancel both diagrams in full due to faults is not on.
 
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nedchester

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Two diagrams cancelled on probably the busiest Saturday of the year is a disgrace. I can sympathise to an extent with the training/crowing issues, but TPE have 6-7 sets accepted now so to cancel both diagrams in full due to faults is not on.

Agreed. But the pressure seems to be on Northern all the time.

Disgraceful, it most certainly is.
 

sjpowermac

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Two diagrams cancelled on probably the busiest Saturday of the year is a disgrace. I can sympathise to an extent with the training/crowing issues, but TPE have 6-7 sets accepted now so to cancel both diagrams in full due to faults is not on.

Agreed. But the pressure seems to be on Northern all the time.

Disgraceful, it most certainly is.
Diagram 5 (starting 05:56 Liverpool-Scarborough) is running, it’s a 185, I’ve actually seen it.

Diagram 1 (starting with 05:55 Manchester Victoria to Liverpool) is cancelled but that’s shown on TPE Journey Check as being ‘due to a shortage of train crew’.
 

sjpowermac

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The new timetable starts tomorrow with some significant changes for the Nova 3 sets. Based on available information, I’ve made some timetables that might help those out photographing or riding the trains.

When people kindly post what is running, I’ve noticed that they often post diagram numbers.

I’m not entirely sure I’ve got the diagram numbers correct, I’ve based them on what has previously been posted in this thread and others on the forum, plus a bit of guesswork counting sequentially (assuming eastbound diagrams first, with west following on). I’m happy to correct those if anyone can help.

Just the Sunday timetable for now but if anyone finds it helpful I’ll do the weekday one.

From looking on Real Time Trains, I think the diagram starting with the 0835 from Scarborough seems to be commencing 22.12.2019

Timetables in pdf/Excel format.

Information ‘as is’, please do double check and as we have seen, a train being booked a Nova 3 isn’t a guarantee it will be one (as I found out on day four after their introduction with a rather expensive ticket!)
 

Attachments

  • Class 68 Printable Sunday Timetable.pdf
    142.8 KB · Views: 91
  • Sunday Class 68 Timetable Excel.xlsx
    14 KB · Views: 47

sjpowermac

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68022
1F52 05:34 Scarborough to Liverpool
1E29 08:54 Liverpool to Scarborough
1F66 12:34 Scarborough to Liverpool
1P92 19:34 Scarborough to Man Air

68027
1F54 06:34 Scarborough to Liverpool
(cancelled at Manchester Victoria)
1E31 09:54 Liverpool to Scarborough
(started 10:30 from Manchester Victoria)
1F68 13:34 Scarborough to Liverpool
1E45 16:54 Liverpool to Scarborough
1P94 20:34 Scarborough to Manchester Piccadilly

With the other two diagrams not running (as yet) that would leave Scarborough with only the graffitied set (68019 plus TP08) for tomorrow morning...
 

matacaster

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Anyone any idea as to what proportion of the 'lack of train crew' is due to
-drivers having no driving hours left as they have been working accumulation hours on new stock
-rosters being badly planned
-train crew having incomplete training on stock rostered for
-unexpectedly high staff sickness
or any other major cause

I am surprised that many diagrams with new stock are cancelled, yet surely, there should be plenty of 185's which could be doubled up and sent out as 6-car for the time being (or even as 3-car, better than nothing)?
 

Ben Bow

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Anyone any idea as to what proportion of the 'lack of train crew' is due to
-drivers having no driving hours left as they have been working accumulation hours on new stock
-rosters being badly planned
-train crew having incomplete training on stock rostered for
-unexpectedly high staff sickness
or any other major cause

I am surprised that many diagrams with new stock are cancelled, yet surely, there should be plenty of 185's which could be doubled up and sent out as 6-car for the time being (or even as 3-car, better than nothing)?

As I have stated previously, the ratio of trained crews to diagrams is insufficient, it may have worked "on paper" but it doesn't in the real world with real people. Therefore, there is a heavy reliance on rest day working to make up the shortfall. Obviously, if staff are working their rest day, turns which start or finish in the early hours of the morning are not going be so easy to cover since working such turns effectively means a second day is disrupted for the staff involved. When you have a lot of uncovered turns, and only a limited pool of available rest day volunteers, its always the shifts in the middle which will be covered first, its only to be expected, but even then, even the most enthusiastic members of staff get to the point where they need some "down time".
 
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Don't believe these have been posted yet; these are the new diagrams as per the December timetable change.

Monday to Saturday

1P05 0242 Manchester Piccadilly - York
1F50 0528 York - Liverpool Lime Street
1E27 0754 Liverpool Lime Street - Scarborough
1F64 1134 Scarborough - Liverpool Lime Street
1E41 1454 Liverpool Lime Street - Scarborough
1F78 1834 Scarborough - Manchester Victoria
1E53 2115 Manchester Victoria - Scarborough

1F52 0534 Scarborough - Liverpool Lime Street
1E29 0854 Liverpool Lime Street - Scarborough
1F66 1234 Scarborough - Liverpool Lime Street
1E43 1554 Liverpool Lime Street - Scarborough
1P92 1934 Scarborough - Manchester Airport

1E23 0627 Manchester Piccadilly - Scarborough
1F60 0934 Scarborough - Liverpool Lime Street
1E37 1254 Liverpool Lime Street - Scarborough
1F74 1634 Scarborough - Liverpool Lime Street
1E51 1954 Liverpool Lime Street - Scarborough

1F54 0634 Scarborough - Liverpool Lime Street
1E31 0953 Liverpool Lime Street - Scarborough
1F68 1334 Scarborough - Liverpool Lime Street
1E45 1654 Liverpool Lime Street - Scarborough
1P94 2034 Scarborough - Manchester Piccadilly

 

sjpowermac

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17.12.2019
68019 plus TP08
1F52 0534 Scarborough - Liverpool Lime Street
1E29 0854 Liverpool Lime Street - Scarborough
1F66 1234 Scarborough - Liverpool Lime Street
1E43 1554 Liverpool Lime Street - Scarborough
1P92 1934 Scarborough - Manchester Airport

68027 plus TP09
1E23 0627 Manchester Piccadilly - Scarborough
1F60 0934 Scarborough - Liverpool Lime Street
1E37 1254 Liverpool Lime Street - Scarborough
1F74 1634 Scarborough - Liverpool Lime Street
1E51 1954 Liverpool Lime Street - Scarborough

Diagram starting with 1P05 cancelled.
Diagram starting with 1F54 is 185126
 

JonathanH

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So do we then assume that Scarborough is one set down for the morning?

I assume that diagram starting with 1P05 is going to be regularly cancelled as it doesn't look like enough time 'on shed' from the previous day if anything needs fixing overnight. It will also presumably be difficult to cover with overtime volunteers as well.
 

sjpowermac

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So do we then assume that Scarborough is one set down for the morning?

I assume that diagram starting with 1P05 is going to be regularly cancelled as it doesn't look like enough time 'on shed' from the previous day if anything needs fixing overnight. It will also presumably be difficult to cover with overtime volunteers as well.
185126 worked 1E53 last night, starting at York as 22:41 York-Scarborough. It then formed the second diagram off Scarborough this morning. Perhaps something similar will happen tonight.

I think you are right, I suspect 1P05/1F50 will be poor runners.
 

sjpowermac

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So do we then assume that Scarborough is one set down for the morning?

I assume that diagram starting with 1P05 is going to be regularly cancelled as it doesn't look like enough time 'on shed' from the previous day if anything needs fixing overnight. It will also presumably be difficult to cover with overtime volunteers as well.
Sorry just noticed, 1P92 is cancelled this evening. That should mean two Nova 3 sets at Scarborough for Wednesday morning.

68019 will work in on 1E43 1554 Liverpool to Scarborough (and remain there rather than working back on 1P92 1954 Scarborough to Man Ait)

68027 will work in on 1E51 1954 Liverpool to Scarborough (remaining in Scarborough as booked).

Hope that helps.
 

Ben Bow

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20 Sep 2018
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Sorry just noticed, 1P92 is cancelled this evening. That should mean two Nova 3 sets at Scarborough for Wednesday morning.

68019 will work in on 1E43 1554 Liverpool to Scarborough (and remain there rather than working back on 1P92 1954 Scarborough to Man Ait)

Hope that helps.

Looks like its game over for the day for 68019 - 1F66, the 12.34 ex Scarborough was terminated at Man Vic "due to a problem with the traction equipment". So just 027 left in traffic today. Very, very disappointing.
 

BHXDMT

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Looks like its game over for the day for 68019 - 1F66, the 12.34 ex Scarborough was terminated at Man Vic "due to a problem with the traction equipment". So just 027 left in traffic today. Very, very disappointing.

1E43 starting Victoria with 68022 and TP13 off Longsight.

019 needs fuel.
 

xotGD

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Hopefully they can get all four diagrams up and running by the end of the week.

I'm on 1F54 on Friday morning, so hoping for the best, expecting the worst.
 

TrainTube

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So is 1F64 currently 185 operated? I thought that it was one of the first diagrams to use the 68s.
 

Ben Bow

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Hopefully they can get all four diagrams up and running by the end of the week.

I'm on 1F54 on Friday morning, so hoping for the best, expecting the worst.

Well, there should be two 68's in Scarborough tonight (022 & 027) so that's one important piece of the jigsaw in place for 4 diagrams tomorrow. We shall see what transpires in the morning.
 

JonathanH

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So is 1F64 currently 185 operated? I thought that it was one of the first diagrams to use the 68s.

1F64 (1134 from Scarborough) should be 68 operated but the diagram starts from Longsight at 0224.

The working before it that had been a 68 in the previous timetable is back to being a 185 for the time being.
 

TrainTube

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1F64 (1134 from Scarborough) should be 68 operated but the diagram starts from Longsight at 0224.

The working before it that had been a 68 in the previous timetable is back to being a 185 for the time being.
Sorry, I meant 1F62! I now realize that this is still 68 operated.
 

JonathanH

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Sorry, I meant 1F62! I now realize that this is still 68 operated.

1F62 (1034 from Scarborough) is not a 68. It is back to being a 185, presumably until mid February or whenever it becomes possible to service 68s overnight at York.
 

Bevan Price

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Anyone any idea as to what proportion of the 'lack of train crew' is due to
-drivers having no driving hours left as they have been working accumulation hours on new stock
-rosters being badly planned
-train crew having incomplete training on stock rostered for
-unexpectedly high staff sickness
or any other major cause

I am surprised that many diagrams with new stock are cancelled, yet surely, there should be plenty of 185's which could be doubled up and sent out as 6-car for the time being (or even as 3-car, better than nothing)?
Some of the "spare" 185s are being used on the new Liverpool / Glasgow services...
 

TrainTube

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1F62 (1034 from Scarborough) is not a 68. It is back to being a 185, presumably until mid February or whenever it becomes possible to service 68s overnight at York.
How come they used to run? Was there a timetable change meaning they have to stay overnight in York or was this the same previously?
 

JonathanH

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How come they used to run? Was there a timetable change meaning they have to stay overnight in York or was this the same previously?

Timetable change - it used to be
5F48 0454 Longsight Car. M.D. to Manchester Victoria
1F48 0555 Manchester Victoria to Liverpool Lime Street
1E25 0656 Liverpool Lime Street to Scarborough
1F62 1041½ Scarborough to Liverpool Lime Street
1E39 1356 Liverpool Lime Street to Scarborough
1F76 1744 Scarborough to Liverpool Lime Street
1J53 2056 Liverpool Lime Street to Stalybridge
5H53 2157 Stalybridge to Longsight Car. M.D.

It is now
5F48 0511 Ardwick T.M.D to Manchester Victoria
1F48 0554 Manchester Victoria to Liverpool Lime Street
1E25 0654 Liverpool Lime Street to Scarborough
1F62 1034 Scarborough to Liverpool Lime Street
1E39 1354 Liverpool Lime Street to Scarborough
1F76 1734 Scarborough to Liverpool Lime Street
1E55 2206 Liverpool Lime Street to York
5E55 0013 York to York Siemens Trans Systems

and at some point in the future it will be
5F48 0437 Longsight Car. M.D. to Manchester Victoria
1F48 0554 Manchester Victoria to Liverpool Lime Street
1E25 0654 Liverpool Lime Street to Scarborough
1F62 1034 Scarborough to Liverpool Lime Street
1E39 1354 Liverpool Lime Street to Scarborough
1F76 1734 Scarborough to Liverpool Lime Street
1E55 2206 Liverpool Lime Street to York
5E55 0013 York to York Siemens Trans Systems
 

_toommm_

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Are the Redcar Central runs still booked for 185s; in particular 1P60 06:07 Redcar to Manchester Airport on Fridays.
Also 1E51, the 19:54 Lime Street to Scarborough on Saturdays.
 

xotGD

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Are the Redcar Central runs still booked for 185s; in particular 1P60 06:07 Redcar to Manchester Airport on Fridays.
Also 1E51, the 19:54 Lime Street to Scarborough on Saturdays.
All of the Boro/Redcar turns are still 185
 

xotGD

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So does anyone have any gen on how many 68s are out today?
 

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