TPE WCML service changes from May 2019

[Camden]

I notice with the Chat Moss line TPE services there is a split service between Lea Green and Newton le Willows.

I assume this is a case of both being lobbied for and neither being selected as the winner, in an effort to please everyone.

Is there any operational rationale for the Scottish line to have the similarly strange pattern?

 

[BMIFlyer]

Crossed wires .I asked about the LM 350 that was in a collision and where it was now.

The 350 at Ardwick has apparently had its gangway and coupler removed, but nothing else touched.

Ah yes. My apologies, didn’t read up.

 

[Starmill]

I assume this is a case of both being lobbied for and neither being selected as the winner, in an effort to please everyone.

It's more that the old pattern had one fast service making no intermediate calls, and one that did both Newton-le-Willows and St Helens Jn. The semi-fast Northern hat to be replaced with something.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Certainly hasn’t been repaired as it’s still in pieces at Ardwick.

Was planned to go to Wolverton and then that was changed to Germany.

Today’s news is it won’t be fixed as the frame is bent. Lots of damage on the unit including parts of the underframe equipment ripped off.

That's the TPE set, isn't it? I was replying to a question regarding the damage to the more seriously damaged LM set at Watford.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I notice with the Chat Moss line TPE services there is a split service between Lea Green and Newton le Willows.

I assume this is a case of both being lobbied for and neither being selected as the winner, in an effort to please everyone.

Is there any operational rationale for the Scottish line to have the similarly strange pattern?

I can't see a good reason, as with 3tpd that suits nobody. I would suggest all should stop at one of the stations to be actually useful - probably the one of the two that has a larger car park, given that neither is particularly central.

 

[FS-2-11]

All 8 car working is cancelled until further notice since 350403 was stopped for repairs after its collision with Horses in November. However the 04:22 should leave Glasgow as an 8 coach train to Carstairs with the rear set empty. At Carstairs the rear set goes ECS to Edinburgh. There is a booked shunt to attach a unit which spends the night at Preston to 1M90 but with the ongoing shortage I don't think this has happened yet.

That's a strange arrangement. Why not run the 04:22 as 4 cars throughout, omitting the delay of the Carstairs stop/detach, and have the ECS to Edinburgh run a few minutes before or afterwards? It's too early for Lanarkshire ScotRail services so it's not as if there is much in the way of pathing issues, nor indeed is there a tight turnaround at Edinburgh (arr 05:37, dep 06:14).

 

[Thomas6187]

Omitting the delay of the Carstairs stop/detach, and have the ECS to Edinburgh run a few minutes before or afterwards?

It has a 8 minutes pathing stop at Carstairs anyway to allow the 04:28 VT Glasgow-Euston to come pass

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

LNR won't want a single 5-car set, it will mess with the formations. They are a 4-8-12 car operation. I suspect they'll take a couple of extra 319s instead.

Not when their Aventras arrive - they are all 5-car sets, so many services will be 5/10-car (23m) sets.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Not when their Aventras arrive - they are all 5-car sets, so many services will be 5/10-car (23m) sets.

They're 24m, so 10 x 24m is the same as 12 x 20m, i.e. the lengths possible are 80m (350), 120m (Aventra), 160m (350) or 240m (either).

A single 5 x 20m (100m total) unit will be no use to them whatsoever as it doesn't fit any pattern. Not to mention that an extra trailer might affect acceleration.

 

[LittleAH]

I’m afraid the class 350 damaged in the horse incident will likely be written off. Siemens have come over from Germany to have a look and say that the underframe is too damaged underneath to repair it.

Strangely an email was sent out yesterday saying it will be repaired but I believe this was written a couple of weeks ago, by fleet.

Looking like LNWR might now have a hybrid (5 car) set in service to compensate using redundant trailers from the damaged TPE 350.

Bet you it won't.

Certainly hasn’t been repaired as it’s still in pieces at Ardwick.

Was planned to go to Wolverton and then that was changed to Germany.

Today’s news is it won’t be fixed as the frame is bent. Lots of damage on the unit including parts of the underframe equipment ripped off.

Where's this news come from? Or is it all just a massive rumour?

 

[route101]

On Monday evening was there a 8 car 350 set running southbound , i was on a NB pendo and i swear i seen two first class sections go by.

 

[Bletchleyite]

On Monday evening was there a 8 car 350 set running southbound , i was on a NB pendo and i swear i seen two first class sections go by.

Wasn't a double 185 was it? I think 185s still operate some services.

 

[route101]

Wasn't a double 185 was it? I think 185s still operate some services.

Could of been , was slow enough that i could see two first class sections . It was either the 1508 from Glasgow or 1612 from Edinburgh

 

[Mathew S]

Bet you it won't.


Where's this news come from? Or is it all just a massive rumour?

I think @BMIFlyer had proved himself a reliable source of information which, given my understanding of his job role, is not surprising.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Could of been , was slow enough that i could see two first class sections . It was either the 1508 from Glasgow or 1612 from Edinburgh

Both of those are in RTT as 110mph Class 350 operated, but that of course is not 100% reliable and it might have been a substitute.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I think @BMIFlyer had proved himself a reliable source of information which, given my understanding of his job role, is not surprising.

He's probably right about it being written off, but the idea that LNR would want a single 5 car unit among their sea of 4s is beyond ludicrous. The only place where a single EMU goes back and forth all day is St Albans, and that barely needs a Pacer in rush hour.

 

[driver9000]

On Monday evening was there a 8 car 350 set running southbound , i was on a NB pendo and i swear i seen two first class sections go by.

You did see an 8 car on Monday. One set failed overnight at Corkerhill and there was no availability of getting it to Ardwick during the day so it was left coupled to another unit for the day. Nothing wrong with it that would affect safety or performance so there was no issue with it staying in service.

 

[driver9000]

Wasn't a double 185 was it? I think 185s still operate some services.

A single 185 works at weekends on the Manchester to Glasgow circuit.

 

[Esker-pades]

It has a 8 minutes pathing stop at Carstairs anyway to allow the 04:28 VT Glasgow-Euston to come pass

It could run behind all the way. It has a 13 minute dwell at Lockerbie that makes such a move pretty easy.

 

[sd0733]

Crossed wires .I asked about the LM 350 that was in a collision and where it was now.

The 350 at Ardwick has apparently had its gangway and coupler removed, but nothing else touched.

All the damaged Watford coaches are back in service as 3 hybrid sets.. 233/246/264 All contain coaches involved.

 

[route101]

You did see an 8 car on Monday. One set failed overnight at Corkerhill and there was no availability of getting it to Ardwick during the day so it was left coupled to another unit for the day. Nothing wrong with it that would affect safety or performance so there was no issue with it staying in service.

I see , i wasnt imagimg things after all

 

[route101]

It could run behind all the way. It has a 13 minute dwell at Lockerbie that makes such a move pretty easy.

How busy are them services from Glasgow/

 

[adrock1976]

It could run behind all the way. It has a 13 minute dwell at Lockerbie that makes such a move pretty easy.

I believe that the amount of generous running time that is given to the 04:22 Glasgow Central - Manchester Airport is to allow if the ex Caledonian Main Line is closed for engineering works between Glasgow and Carlisle. As the running time is roughly 2 hours between the departure times at Glasgow and Carlisle, this allows for a rail replacement bus as it is roughly 2 hours by road.

The layover at Lockerbie I believe is where the traincrew (possible nightshift) have an official break, but do not leave the train unattended as there is no loops there for it to pull into.

How busy are them services from Glasgow/

I have used this service a couple of times in the summer of 2017 (I am an Aston Villa and Partick Thistle fan, so I am used to indulging in masochism) with my observations being that I was the only normal passenger on this train between Glasgow and Carlisle, with maybe one or two more boarding at Lockerbie. This obviously comes with the caveat that these are unscientific observations as I do not use this service daily.

 

[driver9000]

I believe that the amount of generous running time that is given to the 04:22 Glasgow Central - Manchester Airport is to allow if the ex Caledonian Main Line is closed for engineering works between Glasgow and Carlisle. As the running time is roughly 2 hours between the departure times at Glasgow and Carlisle, this allows for a rail replacement bus as it is roughly 2 hours by road.

The layover at Lockerbie I believe is where the traincrew (possible nightshift) have an official break, but do not leave the train unattended as there is no loops there for it to pull into.



I have used this service a couple of times in the summer of 2017 (I am an Aston Villa and Partick Thistle fan, so I am used to indulging in masochism) with my observations being that I was the only normal passenger on this train between Glasgow and Carlisle, with maybe one or two more boarding at Lockerbie. This obviously comes with the caveat that these are unscientific observations as I do not use this service daily.

Lockerbie is not a PNB location. The 04:22 is an early turn for Glasgow depot.

 

[adrock1976]

Lockerbie is not a PNB location. The 04:22 is an early turn for Glasgow depot.

Many thanks for the clarification.

 

[BMIFlyer]

Bet you it won't.


Where's this news come from? Or is it all just a massive rumour?

Not a massive rumour. I receive my info from the TPE fleet department.

Granted the whole LNWR extra coaches thing might not be correct, but as far as the latest damaged 350 update is concerned, the latest info is that it's not going to be fixed. If I'm wrong then I'm wrong. If you know more, feel free to update us.

As for the damage on the unit, everything I've posted is correct. The leading gangway has been taken off as has the coupler assembly and the lifeguard as it is totally bent.

Also there are parts of the underframe equipment that are damaged beyond repair. There is also damage to the front end of the unit. An impact dent / bend of up to 6 inches has been mentioned.

 

[route101]

I believe that the amount of generous running time that is given to the 04:22 Glasgow Central - Manchester Airport is to allow if the ex Caledonian Main Line is closed for engineering works between Glasgow and Carlisle. As the running time is roughly 2 hours between the departure times at Glasgow and Carlisle, this allows for a rail replacement bus as it is roughly 2 hours by road.

The layover at Lockerbie I believe is where the traincrew (possible nightshift) have an official break, but do not leave the train unattended as there is no loops there for it to pull into.



I have used this service a couple of times in the summer of 2017 (I am an Aston Villa and Partick Thistle fan, so I am used to indulging in masochism) with my observations being that I was the only normal passenger on this train between Glasgow and Carlisle, with maybe one or two more boarding at Lockerbie. This obviously comes with the caveat that these are unscientific observations as I do not use this service daily.

Yeah , thought there would be more using it as it gets you down south early ! A taxi to the centre of Glasgow is required for these early trains though

 

[Ianigsy]

I notice with the Chat Moss line TPE services there is a split service between Lea Green and Newton le Willows.

I assume this is a case of both being lobbied for and neither being selected as the winner, in an effort to please everyone.

Is there any operational rationale for the Scottish line to have the similarly strange pattern?

Lea Green is vice St Helens and Newton le Willows instead of Warrington (same platform interchange with the Manchester-North Wales service).

 

[notlob.divad]

I notice with the Chat Moss line TPE services there is a split service between Lea Green and Newton le Willows.

I assume this is a case of both being lobbied for and neither being selected as the winner, in an effort to please everyone.

Lea Green is vice St Helens and Newton le Willows instead of Warrington (same platform interchange with the Manchester-North Wales service).

Also both (St. Helens Junction Vice Lea Green) were calls on the previous Liverpool - Manchester Airport Semi-Fast service that has now been re-routed via Warrington Central. TPE were given the option of providing both calls on one service per hour or splitting the calls between the 2 hourly services. They appear to have chosen the latter to keep the Liverpool - Manchester times consistent.

 

[Senex]

Also both (St. Helens Junction Vice Lea Green) were calls on the previous Liverpool - Manchester Airport Semi-Fast service that has now been re-routed via Warrington Central. TPE were given the option of providing both calls on one service per hour or splitting the calls between the 2 hourly services. They appear to have chosen the latter to keep the Liverpool - Manchester times consistent.

And by doing so they have turned the Liverpool-Manchester leg of the supposed "fast" Liverpool-Newcastle inter-city service into a regional service — in German terms IC becomes RE.