TPExpress Saltburn

[VideozVideoz]

I’ve recently noticed that a lot of TP Express services from Man Airport terminate at Saltburn now. I’m sure they all used to terminate at Redcar Central. When did this change occur and why has Saltburn now been added to the route?

 

[Jorge Da Silva]

I’ve recently noticed that a lot of TP Express services from Man Airport terminate at Saltburn now. I’m sure they all used to terminate at Redcar Central. When did this change occur and why has Saltburn now been added to the route?

December 2022. It was always planned that the Redcar service would be extended to Saltburn. I believe Redcar was a temporary end because Saltburn wasn’t quite possible for some reason (i cant remember why)

 

[mister-sparky]

They had really long layovers at Middlesbrough, so the extra doesn’t actually use another diagram or staff

 

[VideozVideoz]

Interesting responses, thanks. Would be good to understand why the Saltburn extension couldn’t be implemented straight away and Redcar central was the initial terminus of the TPE service for many years

 

[Darandio]

Interesting responses, thanks. Would be good to understand why the Saltburn extension couldn’t be implemented straight away and Redcar central was the initial terminus of the TPE service for many years

I wouldn't less than 3 years many! I don't think the timetable initially facilitated an extension to Saltburn, the turnaround at Redcar was something like 15 minutes.

 

[VideozVideoz]

I wouldn't less than 3 years many! I don't think the timetable initially facilitated an extension to Saltburn, the turnaround at Redcar was something like 15 minutes.

Well it felt like many. 3 years is still many in my book

 

[marsker]

I think that the original extension to Redcar was to overcome difficulties of tuirning back longer trains at Middlesbrough. To run to Saltburn does require an extra set. However, a mess facility has now been provided at Saltburn which means that crews can take personal needs breaks there and the longer turnback gives scope for recovering from delays.

 

[Watershed]

They had really long layovers at Middlesbrough, so the extra doesn’t actually use another diagram or staff

The turnrounds at Middlesbrough were relatively long, but when the services ran to Redcar they had a very short turnround in the loop. Delayed services were therefore regularly turned at Middlesbrough. Extending the Redcar service to Saltburn extended the cycle by an hour as trains pass each other outside Saltburn.

In theory it therefore costs 2 extra units - although there are currently 2 circuits on the Manchester Airport-Saltburn axis that are booked to be single 185s. It also results in a disproportionate increase in the number of crew required, as it was just about possible to squeeze two Leeds-Redcar trips into a York diagram, but you can't manage two Leeds-Saltburns. It's therefore questionable whether it was a judicious use of scarce crew resources.

I think that the original extension to Redcar was to overcome difficulties of tuirning back longer trains at Middlesbrough. To run to Saltburn does require an extra set. However, a mess facility has now been provided at Saltburn which means that crews can take personal needs breaks there and the longer turnback gives scope for recovering from delays.

I don't think the messroom facilities at Saltburn are actually used; even with a 53-minute turnround, I understand there was deemed to be insufficient time for a break. Beats me how that can be the case!

 

[ainsworth74]

I don't think the messroom facilities at Saltburn are actually used; even with a 53-minute turnround, I understand there was deemed to be insufficient time for a break. Beats me how that can be the case!

I've heard from another source similar. That the facilities aren't used but the reason I was given was that they weren't considered suitable by the local reps rather than it being insufficient time.

 

[bearhugger]

I don't think the timetable initially facilitated an extension to Saltburn,

IIRC, Saltburn was more of a long term aspiration, fortunately it happened.

I've heard from another source similar. That the facilities aren't used but the reason I was given was that they weren't considered suitable by the local reps rather than it being insufficient time.

If the mess room is the portacabin near the Middlesbrough end of the platform, then I'd much rather use the local cafes or Sainsburys to be honest.

 

[ainsworth74]

IIRC, Saltburn was more of a long term aspiration, fortunately it happened.

That tallies with my recollection also. Redcar was to the terminus with Saltburn an aspiration. Going to Saltburn in the end made the timetable more resilient and so suddenly ducks aligned (whether sensibly or not from a crew point of view!).

If the mess room is the portacabin near the Middlesbrough end of the platform, then I'd much rather use the local cafes or Sainsburys to be honest.

That's the one and I do tend to agree and I suspect as would most train crew but when you're there at 2200 or 0600 having a dedicated space is going to be necessary as most places will be shut of course around then. I'm just curious as to what the real reason is as there are two theories. The one I mentioned and the one @Watershed suggested.

 

[James90012]

A happy coincidence for us Teessiders and those further along the line, but I was baffled that this happened with the increase in resources just as the rest of the industry is being battered to reduce costs. My understanding (could be wrong so do correct) is that the issue was driven by the introduction of the LNER services, so TPE needed to be kicked further along to terminate. Redcar didn't really work as noted, so Saltburn and absorbing the extra operational cost it is.

Still, it should be reliable with the lengthy turnaround as the original May 18's heroic turnarounds were proven too tight. It's similar now to Scarborough where there is a 55 minute turnaround.

 

[ainsworth74]

The thing that surprises me is that no-one has started rumbling about adding a call at Marske.

The majority of trains towards York stand at Redcar Central for nearly ten minutes so you can get enough time for a call at Marske by reducing that wait and whilst it's trickier on the trains towards Saltburn (especially pathing them over Saltburn West Junction) I suspect it wouldn't be impossible to have them arrive a minute or two later to accommodate a call at Marske.