Traction on the north WCML in late 90s early 00s

[route101]

Mod Note: Posts #1 - #19 originally in this thread

Where all the XC services 86 or HST operated? Any 47 haulage?

 

[stantheman]

Aberdeen to Penzance was HST

 

[pieguyrob]

47's tended to come off at Preston and the 86 would take the train north. No doubt this wasn't always the case.

 

[clagmonster]

47's tended to come off at Preston and the 86 would take the train north. No doubt this wasn't always the case.

Some trains went via Bolton and Manchester and had a loco change at Preston as you say. Others straight down the WCML with the 86 through to New St. There was the odd Birmingham International terminator which the 86 worked throughout and the odd loco change at Coventry in the mix as well.

Not forgetting the Glasgow / Edinburgh - Manchester Airport Cross Country 158 turns, which were known to have a 2+2 HST or short hauled set running vice the sprinter.

 

[pieguyrob]

The cross country turns south were used for getting merlin/first western region 47s from overhaul in Glasgow, back down to old oak. I have a picture somewhere of 47846 in merlin branding at Preston by the old RES platform, and then on the front of a cross country service to the south.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

I can't pinpoint the date, but in the 90s there were some throughout 47-hauled XC services from south of Birmingham to Scotland, running via Manchester.
This was in a pretty grim period which included 170s on Stansted-Birmingham-Liverpool.
Sometimes you wondered what the wires had been put up for.

 

[route101]

Dont recall seeing class 47 XC set at Glasgow but sure i seen a picture ofEdinburgh to Brighton 47 hauled. Recall class 86 at Glasgow on Poole runs.

 

[Whistler40145]

I can't pinpoint the date, but in the 90s there were some throughout 47-hauled XC services from south of Birmingham to Scotland, running via Manchester.
This was in a pretty grim period which included 170s on Stansted-Birmingham-Liverpool.
Sometimes you wondered what the wires had been put up for.

I know 47s worked throughout when a 86/2 wasn’t available at Preston

 

[hexagon789]

Dont recall seeing class 47 XC set at Glasgow but sure i seen a picture ofEdinburgh to Brighton 47 hauled. Recall class 86 at Glasgow on Poole runs.

86s and sometimes 87s worked the Edinburgh-Brighton through to Edinburgh after it was wired, but 47s did continue to haul the trains north of Preston when there was no electric avaliable.

47s also worked the XC trains to Glasgow on occaision as well, sometimes diverted via the GSW.

 

[Whistler40145]

86s and sometimes 87s worked the Edinburgh-Brighton through to Edinburgh after it was wired, but 47s did continue to haul the trains north of Preston when there was no electric avaliable.

47s also worked the XC trains to Glasgow on occaision as well, sometimes diverted via the GSW.

There was an occasion to get a 37/4 back to Scotland to work from Preston to Glasgow Central vice the booked Class 86/2

 

[hexagon789]

There was an occasion to get a 37/4 back to Scotland to work from Preston to Glasgow Central vice the booked Class 86/2

That would've been quite some run, going over Shap with only a 37 hauling would be quite the slog.

 

[Whistler40145]

That would've been quite some run, going over Shap with only a 37 hauling would be quite the slog.

Indeed

 

[route101]

86s and sometimes 87s worked the Edinburgh-Brighton through to Edinburgh after it was wired, but 47s did continue to haul the trains north of Preston when there was no electric avaliable.

47s also worked the XC trains to Glasgow on occaision as well, sometimes diverted via the GSW.

I see , only vaguely remember the old XC services at central.

 

[hexagon789]

I see , only vaguely remember the old XC services at central.

I have no memory pre-Voyagers on XC but videos and photos can provide an awful lot of prototypical information and there's a good few shots about of 47s working the ex-Brighton or Manchester/Birminghams up the GSW, there's an 87 in a video I've seen of Edinburgh in the early 1990s with an XC Mk2 set and so on

 

[driver9000]

Don't forget that during this period there were also a handful of Intercity/Virgin Cross Country services between Liverpool or Manchester to Edinburgh worked by 158s.

 

[Whistler40145]

Don't forget that during this period there were also a handful of Intercity/Virgin Cross Country services between Liverpool or Manchester to Edinburgh worked by 158s.

Yes, did they work as separate services or split/combine en-route?

 

[hexagon789]

Yes, did they work as separate services or split/combine en-route?

I think they were seperate, or at least Virgin seemed to run purely 2-car units.

I can't recall if the pattern remained for the 158s, but in loco-hauled days in the 1980s the services seemed to run as Manchester-Glasgow and Liverpool-Edinburgh they would combine until Carstairs then split to run to the respective Scottish cities

 

[hexagon789]

When did the 158s take over these workings btw? I have a few 1990s timetables, one might cover those workings

 

[Whistler40145]

I remember catching a 158 at Edinburgh Waverley to Preston on a Manchester service and presumably was a two car set

 

[driver9000]

Yes, did they work as separate services or split/combine en-route?

In my experience they ran separately. The first train to Edinburgh started from Manchester Airport arriving in Edinburgh around 10:30 and then as I recall worked down to Liverpool and back before working the last train from Edinburgh which left just before 19:00. Interestingly the morning service from Manchester and evening return called at Carstairs too.

 

[driver9000]

When did the 158s take over these workings btw? I have a few 1990s timetables, one might cover those workings

Not sure but definitely working in 1995. There was a late afternoon service from Manchester Airport which was booked to be a 158.

 

[Scotrail84]

Pretty sure the last, or one of the last Virgin X/C services from Edinburgh before the voyagers started was a 47 and Mk2s, seem to recall a 47 with headboard on the service.

 

[route101]

I remember catching a 158 at Edinburgh Waverley to Preston on a Manchester service and presumably was a two car set

They must of been busy !

 

[Whistler40145]

They must of been busy !

No it was a late Saturday evening

 

[Scotrail84]

They must of been busy !

Always seemed quiet when I seen it in Waverley.

 

[hexagon789]

I remember catching a 158 at Edinburgh Waverley to Preston on a Manchester service and presumably was a two car set

Two-car and they fitted them with first class of a better quality than the Scottish 158s had, 2+1 seating and only nine seats across 2.5 window bays iirc.

 

[hexagon789]

Not sure but definitely working in 1995. There was a late afternoon service from Manchester Airport which was booked to be a 158.

I have the May 1995 ScotRail timetable, which lists the WCML workings into Scotland as I recall. I'll dig out out later and see what the service pattern looks like.

 

[Whistler40145]

I have the May 1995 ScotRail timetable, which lists the WCML workings into Scotland as I recall. I'll dig out out later and see what the service pattern looks like.

Cheers

 

[Journeyman]

Two-car and they fitted them with first class of a better quality than the Scottish 158s had, 2+1 seating and only nine seats across 2.5 window bays iirc.

Never traveled on one of those, but saw an interior photo of one in one of the railway mags of the time - they had Mark 3 style first class seats in them. Shame I never got to experience that, I reckon they must have been rather nice to travel in.

 

[hexagon789]

Never traveled on one of those, but saw an interior photo of one in one of the railway mags of the time - they had Mark 3 style first class seats in them. Shame I never got to experience that, I reckon they must have been rather nice to travel in.

I think they would, even nicer than 159 first class which NSE specified as 2+1.