Train bashing in Brussels advice

[boiledbeans2]

Hi everyone, I have roughly 1.5 days in Brussels and would like to do some train/tram bashing.

It will be my second time in Brussels.

The first time I was there, I mainly visited the touristy attractions, though I enjoyed the train rides there.
I visited both the Tram museum and Train World. I liked the older orange trains on the 2 and 6 lines (I noticed there were actually multiple batches of these orange trains with minor differences).
I had also spent some time at the three main Brussels stations - South, Central, North - observing trains (and discovered the vicinity of North is also worth observing ).

I also visited Antwerp. The train station was beautiful - historic on the outside and modern on the inside. Like a more organised and symmetric version of St. Pancras.

So for this second trip, I have some questions:

1) I'd like to ride the PCC trams. I managed a short trip the last time while travelling between attractions. Which routes can I find these trams? I searched some older threads on this forum and it mentioned only 39 and 44?

2) I'd also like to ride the trains with the gigantic rubber fronts, the Class 96s, and walk through the rubber front between two coupled trains. Is there a good day trip where I can ride these trains to? They seemed to be quite rare the last time I was there. I think I only saw one Class 96 (literally one single unit) during my observations at South/Central/North.

3) I'd also like to ride the "NMBS/SNCB Classical twin EMUs". On my day trip to Antwerp mentioned above, the first train that turned up on the Brussels - Antwerp service was a two-car "NMBS/SNCB Classical twin EMUs", which was completely rammed (I think it was a replacement for the booked train - it was coupled to another EMU, but that EMU was locked with lights off). So I waited for the next train (30min?) and it was a loco-hauled set. Where can I ride the "NMBS/SNCB Classical twin EMUs" normally?

4) Are there some older trains which are worth riding, especially if they will be withdrawn soon?

5) Are there any interesting places to observe/take photos of trains/trams? E.g. other busy train/tram stations besides South/Central/North? I was reading wiki, and it seems Churchill tram station has some complicated reversing procedure, so maybe it would be interesting to visit?

Trams in Brussels - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[P Binnersley]

No trains, but the old freight depots at "Tours & Taxis" (two buildings) and the "Gare Maritime" have been restored to shopping/food courts and retain a lot of original features.

500m walk west from Brussel Noord along Av Simon Bolivar.

 

[rvdborgt]

The classical twin units are still running between Liège and Aachen, but only on some trains as a temporary replacement. They're also still doing a few trains around Charleroi. That's it, they should all have been out of service by the end of last year but they got some spare time it seems.

 

[eastwestdivide]

Try http://www.beluxtrains.net/indexen.php?page=help/helpen_3
for train compositions. Look under “by rolling stock”. Seems to be updated early each year (last period listed is 02/2023).
AM 96 are the rubber rings, AM 64 etc are the 2-car things.

 

[Seanesheep]

I used the beluxtrains.net site mentioned above when I was in Belgium a few years ago, which I found was very helpful.
I also used an Android app called HyperRail - Belgian trains, which has live departures for any station, and also gives the formation of the train, which was great as I was after loco-hauled double decker sets.

 

[MarcVD]

Only 3 classical remain in Liège where they are used as a reserve for the trains to Aachen in case one of the 3 new trains assigned to that service is unavailable. All others (around 25) moved to Charleroi where they are used for local trains around Charleroi and La Louvière. This is your best bet to see/travel with them. Charleroi is also a good place for the "Danish nose" units as they are used there half-hourly on trains between Mons, Charleroi, and Namur. They are not used around Brussels too much anymore now because their narrow doors cause too long dwell time in the Brussels stations, where timekeeping is critical.

 

[boiledbeans2]

Many thanks for the website above! Very useful indeed! I will also download the app recomended above!

Are the 'rubber rings' going to be withdrawn anytime soon? If not, from the beluxtrains website, I see there are some trains doing Bruxelles-Midi to Bruxelles-Luxembourg (and onto Liège). That would keep the journey within Brussels and I could use a 1-day Brupass. My main interest is mainly to observe the gangway when two units are coupled.

Now for the 2-car EMUs, as they will be withdrawn soon, I think that would be my priority. What would be a recommended scenic route with lots of stops-starts? And could I get a through ticket from Brussels? For example, I tried searching for Brussels to Jambes or Luttre on the SNCB website, and it gives me direct trains. Is there a ticket to go via Charleroi-Central? Or I have to buy separate tickets? A Brussels to Charleroi, then a Charleroi to Jambes/Luttre?

 

[MarcVD]

Luttre is on the line 124 from Brussels to Charleroi. So no you cannot buy a ticket to Luttre, ride to Charleroi and then come back to Luttre. Best is indeed to buy a ticket to Charleroi, and then another ticket from there. If you plan to travel frequently within Belgium, you could consider buying a ten trips pass. They are valid for one year. This way you could travel to Charleroi, see what's waiting to depart there, and make a last minute decision without having to buy a ticket. Just make sure to fill your pass in before you board.

"Rubber rings", as you name them, are going to be around for at least 10 more years, and that's a strict minimum.

Ten trips pass : https://www.belgiantrain.be/en/tick...HvEuyj3H_CgbmJOa-lE4dR1Pm-exWZLRoCrfoQAvD_BwE

 

[Jamesrob637]

Luttre is on the line 124 from Brussels to Charleroi. So no you cannot buy a ticket to Luttre, ride to Charleroi and then come back to Luttre. Best is indeed to buy a ticket to Charleroi, and then another ticket from there. If you plan to travel frequently within Belgium, you could consider buying a ten trips pass. They are valid for one year. This way you could travel to Charleroi, see what's waiting to depart there, and make a last minute decision without having to buy a ticket. Just make sure to fill your pass in before you board.

"Rubber rings", as you name them, are going to be around for at least 10 more years, and that's a strict minimum.

Ten trips pass : https://www.belgiantrain.be/en/tick...HvEuyj3H_CgbmJOa-lE4dR1Pm-exWZLRoCrfoQAvD_BwE

I hope the Gumminasen will go for some time yet. They were only built in the mid to late-90s. Though I suspect they could do with a refresh.

 

[boiledbeans2]

Luttre is on the line 124 from Brussels to Charleroi. So no you cannot buy a ticket to Luttre, ride to Charleroi and then come back to Luttre. Best is indeed to buy a ticket to Charleroi, and then another ticket from there. If you plan to travel frequently within Belgium, you could consider buying a ten trips pass. They are valid for one year. This way you could travel to Charleroi, see what's waiting to depart there, and make a last minute decision without having to buy a ticket. Just make sure to fill your pass in before you board.

"Rubber rings", as you name them, are going to be around for at least 10 more years, and that's a strict minimum.

Ten trips pass : https://www.belgiantrain.be/en/tick...HvEuyj3H_CgbmJOa-lE4dR1Pm-exWZLRoCrfoQAvD_BwE

Thanks for your reply. Most likely I won't be visiting Brussels for some time, but I'm interested to know how the 10 trips pass works. Based on the website, it's a flat fare? So I can travel anywhere to anywhere in Belgium for a fixed price? E.g. I could use one from Brussels to Charleroi, then another from Charleroi to Luttre?

Although for the Charleroi to Luttre ticket, I would be paying more as the 10 trips pass is €96/10 = €9.6 (x2 for a return = €19.2), while a return ticket on the SNCB website is €7.

 

[rvdborgt]

Thanks for your reply. Most likely I won't be visiting Brussels for some time, but I'm interested to know how the 10 trips pass works. Based on the website, it's a flat fare? So I can travel anywhere to anywhere in Belgium for a fixed price? E.g. I could use one from Brussels to Charleroi, then another from Charleroi to Luttre?

Although for the Charleroi to Luttre ticket, I would be paying more as the 10 trips pass is €96/10 = €9.6 (x2 for a return = €19.2), while a return ticket on the SNCB website is €7.

The 10 trips pass is a flat fare. You can use them for any domestic journey. You are allowed to break your journey.

 

[Ken H]

Dont forget Brussels 4th station at Luxembourg. It has inter-city trains. I suppose you could do Noord to Luxembourg if that floats your boat.
suss out the pre metro. These are tram tunnels that have conversion to metro built in. There is one from Gare du Nord to Gare du Midi, and another from Meiser to Boileu. Tram 25. Meiser is fun in the rush hour too.
Look at Lemmonier tram station. Its a wierd mix of platforms and underground foot crossings with a junction, so fun for watching the trams.
There is the kings waiting room at Gare Centraal. Dunno when you can get access. I got in to look when there was an exhibition on in Gare Centraal. Think it was some sort of anniversary in 2001.
I also got a slow train from Antwerp to Roosendall. The voltage changeover was exciting with lots of bangs from the circuit breaker.

There is also Mappa Mundo bar on Karperbrug, near Bourse. No idea if safe round there now - not been since 2001

 

[alex397]

:

1) I'd like to ride the PCC trams. I managed a short trip the last time while travelling between attractions. Which routes can I find these trams? I searched some older threads on this forum and it mentioned only 39 and 44?

I was in Bruxelles last week, tracking down many of the PCCs.

As mentioned, they definitely run on the 39 and 44. But you don’t have to venture that far out to travel on them (though both these scenic routes are well worth visiting especially the 44), as they continue to run in the city centre. They can certainly be found on routes 18, 51 and 97. I very occasionally spotted them on route 81 too though that seems rare.

The 51 is a good alternative anyway to the busy pre-metro routes 3/4 from Gare du Midi to the city centre.
Route 97 is currently split in two due to works. They were the complete allocation to the northern section of the route to Louise on my visit.

Also, just south of Gare du Midi on Avenue du Roi is the Saint Gilles tram depot, where you can spot the PCCs resting inside.

 

[boiledbeans2]

Many thanks for the above suggestions!

I have a question, I see that contactless is a valid payment option, with a daily cap of €7.50. When using the bus and tram, do I only have to touch the reader when entering? Or do I have to touch when exiting as well?

 

[DanielB]

I also got a slow train from Antwerp to Roosendall. The voltage changeover was exciting with lots of bangs from the circuit breaker.

There is no true voltage changeover on that route. Belgian trains continue into the Netherlands simply at half power.

 

[alex397]

Many thanks for the above suggestions!

I have a question, I see that contactless is a valid payment option, with a daily cap of €7.50. When using the bus and tram, do I only have to touch the reader when entering? Or do I have to touch when exiting as well?

I tried this for the first time on my visit last week. You just touch the grey (not red) reader when entering. Though bear in mind it takes €7.50 from your account straight away as soon as you tap on the first bus/tram. Not sure if you get any money back if you don’t travel on enough journeys to cover that though.

 

[TAS]

I tried this for the first time on my visit last week. You just touch the grey (not red) reader when entering. Though bear in mind it takes €7.50 from your account straight away as soon as you tap on the first bus/tram. Not sure if you get any money back if you don’t travel on enough journeys to cover that though.

You do.

 

[Thames99]

Quote from MarcVD: Only 3 classical remain in Liège where they are used as a reserve for the trains to Aachen in case one of the 3 new trains assigned to that service is unavailable.
Sorry - the site's quote function doesn't work for me.

The route for stopping trains used to be Aachen - Verviers - Spa. Is it now Aachen - Verviers - Liège with the new trains?

 

[eastwestdivide]

Quote from MarcVD: Only 3 classical remain in Liège where they are used as a reserve for the trains to Aachen in case one of the 3 new trains assigned to that service is unavailable.
Sorry - the site's quote function doesn't work for me.

The route for stopping trains used to be Aachen - Verviers - Spa. Is it now Aachen - Verviers - Liège with the new trains?

Yes, taking 1h2mins, one per hour as RE29 according to the journey planner at bahn.de. Versus 23 mins for ICE and Eurostar/Thalys via the high speed line.

 

[alex397]

If you are in Bruxelles on a Saturday, there is a Classical twin EMU working on IC3410 (Binche to Schaerbeek). I travelled on it from Midi to Schaerbeek. Otherwise, it is run by more modern units on Mon-Fri and Sun. I don’t think they work on much else into Bruxelles.

Schaerbeek is an interesting station to visit by the way. Much bigger than is needed for the traffic there, and it is mostly unmodernised giving a very dated feel. And of course the grand station building is now used by the excellent Train World museum.

You do.

Good to know. Thanks. I’ll have more confidence using it next time.

 

[TAS]

Good to know. Thanks. I’ll have more confidence using it next time.

No problem. To be more precise it basically works in the same way as TfL. TfL or STIB authorises and places a hold on an amount (£0.10 or €7.50 respectively) when you tap, calculate the amount actually due at the end of the day and charge that. It's just that TfL revises the amount up and STIB revises it down.

 

[class387]

Only 3 classical remain in Liège where they are used as a reserve for the trains to Aachen in case one of the 3 new trains assigned to that service is unavailable. All others (around 25) moved to Charleroi where they are used for local trains around Charleroi and La Louvière. This is your best bet to see/travel with them. Charleroi is also a good place for the "Danish nose" units as they are used there half-hourly on trains between Mons, Charleroi, and Namur. They are not used around Brussels too much anymore now because their narrow doors cause too long dwell time in the Brussels stations, where timekeeping is critical.

Sorry for hijacking the thread - do you know if Charleroi's classic units are likely to last into the summer, past the May timetable change?

 

[MarcVD]

Sorry for hijacking the thread - do you know if Charleroi's classic units are likely to last into the summer, past the May timetable change?

Pure personally opinion, but I think so, yes. SNCB based its maintenance plan for rolling stock on a quite optimistic delivery schedule for the new M7 stock. This program is running seriously late but the old trains have to be pushed out of service when their maintenance ticket expires. Notably those days we see a lot of M4 cars sent to the scraper. This means SNCB is struggling to align all the rolling stock it needs. So basically anything on wheels that is still serviceable gets used to the last second. So there will be a few more scrapped units, sure, but not all of them yet.

There is no true voltage changeover on that route. Belgian trains continue into the Netherlands simply at half power.

The voltage separation is in fact made of a few meters with no catenary at all. Trains have to go through it with their pantograph down. And also, on belgian stock, there is a relay that shuts off everything if the voltage drops below, I think, 1900 V. This can be overriden by a switch in a control panel in the back of the driver... So there will definitely be some clunks and clangs when the train passes through this zone.

 

[Ken H]

...

The voltage separation is in fact made of a few meters with no catenary at all. Trains have to go through it with their pantograph down. And also, on belgian stock, there is a relay that shuts off everything if the voltage drops below, I think, 1900 V. This can be overriden by a switch in a control panel in the back of the driver... So there will definitely be some clunks and clangs when the train passes through this zone.

Thanks. I tried to find that pic.

 

[boiledbeans2]

Luttre is on the line 124 from Brussels to Charleroi. So no you cannot buy a ticket to Luttre, ride to Charleroi and then come back to Luttre. Best is indeed to buy a ticket to Charleroi, and then another ticket from there.

If I have a Brussels to Charleroi ticket, can I use a fast train from Brussels to Luttre, then the 2-car EMU slow train to end at Charleroi?

 

[MarcVD]

If I have a Brussels to Charleroi ticket, can I use a fast train from Brussels to Luttre, then the 2-car EMU slow train to end at Charleroi?

I don't think so. You are not supposed to change trains if you have a direct connection. But you could probably play dumb and explain that you got a bit confused and got off the first train too early. As this is obviously not a fraud attempt, the traing guard would probably let it pass.

 

[rvdborgt]

I don't think so. You are not supposed to change trains if you have a direct connection. But you could probably play dumb and explain that you got a bit confused and got off the first train too early. As this is obviously not a fraud attempt, the traing guard would probably let it pass.

You are allowed to break your journey at any station along the route, so it is no problem to change in Luttre.
The rule that no breaks were allowed (or only with permission) has long gone.

 

[boiledbeans2]

Many thanks for all your replies. I've finished the trip and am back in the UK.

I visited Charleroi and in the end, I did a Charleroi to Jambres on the 2-car EMUs. The EMUs seem heavily refurbished, they didn't look/sound old at all from the interior.

I also managed to get an M4 set from Brussels to Charleroi. Again, they seem heavily refurbished. They don't look old at all interior-wise.

I did the AM96 from Brussels South to Luxembourg. After visiting the rubber ring connection area, I'm still amazed at how the entire cab front could be folded away.

I rode the PCC trams on 39 & 44. The 44 route is currently truncated because of engineering works.

Lastly, I understand why KenH mentioned Meiser is fun in rush hours. The stopping position of the trams are on a set of points. Naturally, no passenger is going to stand on the set of points while waiting for the tram. So when the tram arrives, everyone rushes to the area over the set of points to board the tram!

I have previously visited Schaerbeek and Train World, so didn't visit this time.

Anyway, here are some photos of my trip. Sorry for the watermarks - don't want anyone stealing my photos.

There is a photo of TGVs covered in snow (the front is actually black), a 2-car EMU, the rubber ring connection corridor on the AM96, and a PCC tram.

 

[eastwestdivide]

Thanks for the round-up. Where are the TGVs?

 

[Jamesrob637]

Thanks for the round-up. Where are the TGVs?

I'd say likely Bruxelles-Midi