Train cancelled due to overloading!

[deltic]

According to National Rail website today's 08.28 Penzance to Glasgow was terminated at Leeds? due to "This train has been cancelled because of an unusually large passenger flow"

what does this really mean

It seems to reappear as a later train from Leeds - 16.23 instead of being the 16.08 departure - is this to get around punctuality figures -

 

[sonic2009]

It's not canceled It's been running late since I saw it at Cheltenham Spa today. It's been rather busy all week. So I've been told.

 

[Hydro]

According to National Rail website today's 08.28 Penzance to Glasgow was terminated at Leeds? due to "This train has been cancelled because it was chronically underspecified length wise and is unsuited to the Intercity cross-country routes it is used on"

That's what it really means, I think.

 

[davelew99]

MerseyRail have cancelled a few trains 'due to late running' when it's late because of the number of passengers, what that happens, everyone is turfed out at the next station causing the train behind to be even more massively overloaded - personally I don't think this is a good way to handle the problem. Perhaps when full they need to become alight only?

 

[MidnightFlyer]

MerseyRail have cancelled a few trains 'due to late running' when it's late because of the number of passengers, what then happens is everyone is turfed out at the next station causing the train behind to be even more massively overloaded - personally I don't think this is a good way to handle the problem. Perhaps when full they need to become alight only?

A lot of it could stem down to the weight. Some units are unable to run if a set weight for the train is exceeded.

 

[83G/84D]

Currently between Berwick & Dunbar and running around 20 late. It lost 6 minutes at Bristol Parkway due to passengers and lost it's path into New Street and beyond losing more time. Definately NOT cancelled!

 

[dk1]

A lot of it could stem down to the weight. Some units are unable to run if a set weight for the train is exceeded.

Only seems to apply to Pendo's where 'tilt' is in use & then im not sure how strictly enforced that is because many are very crowded. I have never known a train cancelled due to weight. We just pack them in sometimes until completely rammed. As long as the doors close, breath in & away we go

 

[Nym]

OK, on a train weighing 40+tonnes per carriage, an extra 12 ton of passengers makes a difference? And thats a full carriage of americans...

 

[richw]

Is it cancelled from Leeds because its gone alight only? So as people can't join at later stations so effectively cancelled from them stations?

Sent from my HTC Sensation Z710e using Tapatalk

 

[142094]

When they say 'high passenger flow' it could be getting small delays at each station due to problems boarding and alighting. No doubt it will be a very similar story tomorrow.

 

[Dreadnought]

I remember a Bank Holiday a fair few years ago being on a pair of 142s at Preston which was due to go to Blackpool North. The train was wedged throughout with more people left on the platform!

An announcement was made that the train would not be departing until some passengers got us as it was overweight and could not move. Even though I didn't get off enough people must have done because we eventually departed!

 

[wensley]

It's now stuck at Motherwell and has been for 30mins!

 

[83G/84D]

It's now stuck at Motherwell and has been for 30mins!

No it hasn't.........

851S47MC23 08:28 PENZANCE to GLASGOW C 23/12/11 Multiple unit (planned)


Booked Actual Applicable Timetable Service
arr dep arr dep
TORPHIN 19:28H N/R
AUCHEGRAY 19:33 N/R
CARSTRS E 19:37 19:58A 21 LATE VIA CARSTAIRS
CARSTAIRS 19:39 20:00A 21 LATE
LANARK JN 19:42 20:03A 21 LATE
LAW JN 19:46 20:08A 22 LATE
WISHAW 19:49 N/R
SHIELDMUR 19:51 N/R
MOTHERWEL 19:54 19:55H 20:14A 20:16A 21 LATE VIA MAIN LINE
MOSENDSJN 20:00 N/R
MOSENDWJN 20:01H N/R
UDDNGSTNJ 20:04H 20:19A 15 LATE
NEWTON 20:05H 20:21A 16 LATE
RUTHGLNEJ 20:08H 20:23A 15 LATE
EGLINTONJ 20:12 20:26A 14 LATE
BGE ST JN 20:13 20:27A 14 LATE
GLASGOW C 20:15 20:30A 15 LATE

 

[wensley]

No it hasn't.........

851S47MC23 08:28 PENZANCE to GLASGOW C 23/12/11 Multiple unit (planned)


Booked Actual Applicable Timetable Service
arr dep arr dep
TORPHIN 19:28H N/R
AUCHEGRAY 19:33 N/R
CARSTRS E 19:37 19:58A 21 LATE VIA CARSTAIRS
CARSTAIRS 19:39 20:00A 21 LATE
LANARK JN 19:42 20:03A 21 LATE
LAW JN 19:46 20:08A 22 LATE
WISHAW 19:49 N/R
SHIELDMUR 19:51 N/R
MOTHERWEL 19:54 19:55H 20:14A 20:16A 21 LATE VIA MAIN LINE
MOSENDSJN 20:00 N/R
MOSENDWJN 20:01H N/R
UDDNGSTNJ 20:04H 20:19A 15 LATE
NEWTON 20:05H 20:21A 16 LATE
RUTHGLNEJ 20:08H 20:23A 15 LATE
EGLINTONJ 20:12 20:26A 14 LATE
BGE ST JN 20:13 20:27A 14 LATE
GLASGOW C 20:15 20:30A 15 LATE

Fair enough!! Still showing as 'lost' from what I can see but I shall bow to your superior computing power

 

[embers25]

When they say 'high passenger flow' it could be getting small delays at each station due to problems boarding and alighting. No doubt it will be a very similar story tomorrow.

I was on the 1146 to Exeter from Woking today which was a crush loaded (like a peak Victoria Line tube) 5 car and two guards operated very different policies. From Woking to Salisbury you got the bare minimum time to force your way in and then he shut the doors leaving those not quick enough behind. From Salisbury onwards the new guard walked the entire train after every station ensuring everyone was off/on that needed to be. Net result was that we missed our slot at Honiton so a 20 minute additional delay! The overcrowding wasn't helped by Salisbury as usual not holding the previous Exeter train for the late running connection from Pompey. Something really needs to be done about Salisbury as the 7 min connection is often missed and for Feniton/Whimple and Pinhoe that means a 2 hour wait. Whats worse is that it is often missed because the train from Portsmouth gets held outside Salisbury to let the Exeter train through even if its on time. I know connections are rarely held now but the signallers at Salisbury need to use more common sense as letting the Exeter just means it waits longer on the Platform and also it only goes on to wait 5 mins in Tisbury loop too! Why can't the Exeter train just leave a couple of minutes later giving a longer connection and less wait at Tisbury?!

 

[Wyvern]

I understand that, with some classes of train, if they are overloaded, one cannot get door interlock.

 

[Jimini]

Back in 2003 or so I was commuting into town from Reading. One night at Paddington P1 I was on the 1830 to Bristol TM (I think) and it was ridiculously busy, vestibules with people crammed in, folk sitting in the luggage racks etc. The TM came over the tannoy shortly before our departure time and said that due to the train being too heavy we were unable to depart and he was urging people only going to Reading to alight and get the next train to Oxford about 10 minutes later (that was also fast to Reading) to alleviate the problem. I was half way down one of the carriages so couldn't really comply with his request but either way we left about five minutes late after a few people (that I saw) had indeed left the service and were walking back down the platform.

I didn't really think much of it at the time but this thread reminded me of the occasion. That's certainly the only time it's happened on a service I've been on before. What do you guys make of it? It was a HST set, just in case that makes any difference.

 

[ChrisCooper]

I presume in cases where passengers can't board due to overcrowding then it's treated the same as if the service was cancelled from their point of view, i.e they can travel on a later train or later connection at no extra cost, and that they can claim under delay repay if delayed enough, and under worst cases they would make arrangements to get them to their destination by alternative means? Thankfully never been in that position myself, although I've been on a few trains where passengers have been left behind (including at unmanned stations with an hourly service).

 

[Blindtraveler]

not wanting to turn this into another XC rant but blooming tipical!

 

[12CSVT]

Thankfully never been in that position myself, although I've been on a few trains where passengers have been left behind (including at unmanned stations with an hourly service).

I was on a 142 unit bound for Preston in 1998 when hundreds of people tried to board at Cark, more were left behind than got on. The next train (and last train of the day) was over 2 hours later.

 

[wintonian]

Back in 2003 or so I was commuting into town from Reading. One night at Paddington P1 I was on the 1830 to Bristol TM (I think) and it was ridiculously busy, vestibules with people crammed in, folk sitting in the luggage racks etc. The TM came over the tannoy shortly before our departure time and said that due to the train being too heavy we were unable to depart and he was urging people only going to Reading to alight and get the next train to Oxford about 10 minutes later (that was also fast to Reading) to alleviate the problem. I was half way down one of the carriages so couldn't really comply with his request but either way we left about five minutes late after a few people (that I saw) had indeed left the service and were walking back down the platform.

I didn't really think much of it at the time but this thread reminded me of the occasion. That's certainly the only time it's happened on a service I've been on before. What do you guys make of it? It was a HST set, just in case that makes any difference.

If they offerd to swap an advance I held for a SVR/ FSR (depending on the class of the advance) then I would be happy to get off and wait for another train.

If they don't offer something for the inconvenience then why should I move?

Sent from my HTC Desire S

 

[PHILIPE]

I recall about 5 years ago travelling from Newcastle to South Wales our Voyager was really wedged after Sheffield. At Derby we were instructed to disembark as the Unit was required to restart a service from Bournemouth to the North East due to that service having been terminated as a result of failure. The platform was heaving with intending passengers for that service. We were instructed to catch the next train half an hour later. As expected this was already rammed on arrival at Derby so if people unavle to get on would have finished up behind passengers travelling after them. Which would have been the lesser of 2 evils - let us run or hold the Bournemouth passengers for their next service.
I recall also an example at Bristol Temple Meads several years ago when a rammed Voyager heading for the West Country was terminated due to failure. XC (Virgin at that time) instructed passengers to catch an 18 55 FGW onwards as far as Exeter - worked by a 153 !!!

 

[Greenback]

As has been mentioend by a few posters already, this sort of overcrowding isn't a recent phenomenon. In 1997 a Virgin HST was so overcrowded at Birminghm New St that the TM made an announcement that the train would not be leaving until some people had got off.

That particular trainw as so crowded that people were sitting on tables, arm rests, and luggage racks as well as standing all the way down the carriage.

 

[wintonian]

Hardly anyone in first class on the 16:20 Euston to Manchester today, shame about the ones that are though.

Sent from my HTC Desire S

 

[dvboy]

Back in 2003 or so I was commuting into town from Reading. One night at Paddington P1 I was on the 1830 to Bristol TM (I think) and it was ridiculously busy, vestibules with people crammed in, folk sitting in the luggage racks etc. The TM came over the tannoy shortly before our departure time and said that due to the train being too heavy we were unable to depart and he was urging people only going to Reading to alight and get the next train to Oxford about 10 minutes later (that was also fast to Reading) to alleviate the problem. I was half way down one of the carriages so couldn't really comply with his request but either way we left about five minutes late after a few people (that I saw) had indeed left the service and were walking back down the platform.

I didn't really think much of it at the time but this thread reminded me of the occasion. That's certainly the only time it's happened on a service I've been on before. What do you guys make of it? It was a HST set, just in case that makes any difference.

I suppose they could have cancelled the stop at Reading to force people off if needed.


Declassifying First Class doesn't happen often enough when Standard passengers have to stand in the aisle and crowd vestibles (as on a Birmingham-Glasgow service yesterday) - personally when this happens I go and sit in First anyway since I'm usually only making a short journey, and if challenged, I ask the TM or whoever to accompany me to try to find a seat in standard.

 

[Greenback]

That would have been nice for people wanting to board at Reading. As so many people get off at Reading there would have been room for them to get on too!

 

[dvboy]

That would have been nice for people wanting to board at Reading. As so many people get off at Reading there would have been room for them to get on too!

I suppose "cancel" as opposed to actually cancel. Say it's not calling at Reading then call there anyway to pick up?

 

[Greenback]

I suppose "cancel" as opposed to actually cancel. Say it's not calling at Reading then call there anyway to pick up?

Yes, that would be a good strategy to get people off!

 

[graham43404]

What I don't for the life of me understand with XC is that they have had trains running like cattle trucks the past couple of days yet they have at least 2 HST's just gathering dust at depots as far as I am aware. It just seems like madness to me.

 

[ValleyLines142]

A similar problem happens in Cardiff on the City Line. A lot of people make their way on the City Line, which is a relatively quiet route, to Ninian Park for the Cardiff City Stadium and it so crammed on match days its untrue. And only 2-car units can be used because of short platforms on all other stations along the line such as Waun-Gron Park, Fairwater and Danescourt! Ninian Park has the longest platforms on the line, accommodating up to nine coaches, rather than two coaches as at the other three stations above. Now, trains do not run to the station within three hours of a match due to fears that platforms cannot safely accommodate large numbers of passengers attending, passengers are instead made to go to nearby Grangetown station on the Vale of Glamorgan Line, where most services are formed of 4 coaches and are more frequent, only problem is that there is no step-free acess. Hopefully the situation can be resolved!