Train cancelled prior 2200, paid more, arrive late, no compensation due

[trover]

I’ll be travelling from Warrington West (WAW) (departing at 2031) to Lancaster (LAN) (arriving at 2231), changing at Man Oxford Road (MCO) and Preston (PRE). WAW to MCO with NT, MCO to PRE with TP, PRE to LAN with NT, one advance ticket for each leg, minimum connection time complied. The 2031 WAW to MCO is cancelled so the subsequent two legs will be missed.

I’ll have to use the 2130 WAW to MCO and change 2229 from MCO to LAN.

My concern is with Manchester to Lancaster. Tickets were bought during rail sale, NT tickets costed the same flat rate of £1.50. Because of the cancellation I’ll only be using one NT leg from Manchester to Lancaster which ‘worth’ £1.50. But I’ve actually paid £1.50 for the PRE to LAN NT ticket plus the cost of the TP ticket, I feel like l was overcharged.

When the NRCoT hasn’t changed it’s not an issue, I get 100% compensation for all my tickets for 60+ mins delay (or 50% for 30-59 mins). However, as the new NRCoT calculate delay repay based on the published timetable of the day I’ll be entitled to no compensation.

Even applying the PRO - EU Regulation 1371/2007 I’ll be entitled to 25% of tickets costs for 60+ mins delay, it still doesn’t cover the price difference.

Any ideas? Is there any chance for the train to be reinstated? Thanks in advance.

 

[roversfan2001]

Take the 25%. Not a lot else to be done really. Your gripe about feeling overcharged is a strange one, it must be said. If you were that bothered you'd have booked the later one at the time surely?

 

[Watershed]

I’ll be travelling from Warrington West (WAW) (departing at 2031) to Lancaster (LAN) (arriving at 2231), changing at Man Oxford Road (MCO) and Preston (PRE). WAW to MCO with NT, MCO to PRE with TP, PRE to LAN with NT, one advance ticket for each leg, minimum connection time complied. The 2031 WAW to MCO is cancelled so the subsequent two legs will be missed.

I’ll have to use the 2130 WAW to MCO and change 2229 from MCO to LAN.

My concern is with Manchester to Lancaster. Tickets were bought during rail sale, NT tickets costed the same flat rate of £1.50. Because of the cancellation I’ll only be using one NT leg from Manchester to Lancaster which ‘worth’ £1.50. But I’ve actually paid £1.50 for the PRE to LAN NT ticket plus the cost of the TP ticket, I feel like l was overcharged.

When the NRCoT hasn’t changed it’s not an issue, I get 100% compensation for all my tickets for 60+ mins delay (or 50% for 30-59 mins). However, as the new NRCoT calculate delay repay based on the published timetable of the day I’ll be entitled to no compensation.

Even applying the PRO - EU Regulation 1371/2007 I’ll be entitled to 25% of tickets costs for 60+ mins delay, it still doesn’t cover the price difference.

Any ideas? Is there any chance for the train to be reinstated? Thanks in advance.

Which day are you travelling? The 20:31 WAW-MCO was last cancelled on 20 April, which was before the first date that Rail Sale fares could be bought for. I can't see that it is cancelled on any day until 27 May either, which is the last date that Rail Sale fares could be bought for. Unless I am missing something?

Why do you feel overcharged? If you had known about the cancellation at the time of booking, how would that have changed things? The new NRCoT provisions are very disappointing but I don't see that they mean you've been overcharged, just that it is possible you will receive less compensation than would be fair.

 

[trover]

Your gripe about feeling overcharged is a strange one, it must be said. If you were that bothered you'd have booked the later one at the time surely?

I paid more so I could arrive at 2231. Now I’m still paying the fare to arrive at 2231 which is more expensive (a £1.50 NT ticket plus a TP ticket) compared to arriving an hour late (only a £1.50 NT ticket), but I’ll be arriving an hour late which costed lower price if that make sense?

Which day are you travelling? The 20:31 WAW-MCO was last cancelled on 20 April, which was before the first date that Rail Sale fares could be bought for. I can't see that it is cancelled on any day until 27 May either, which is the last date that Rail Sale fares could be bought for. Unless I am missing something?

Why do you feel overcharged? If you had known about the cancellation at the time of booking, how would that have changed things? The new NRCoT provisions are very disappointing but I don't see that they mean you've been overcharged, just that it is possible you will receive less compensation than would be fair.

It’s tomorrow. The train existed at the time I booked so I was able to purchase advance ticket.

 

[Watershed]

I paid more so I could arrive at 2231. Now I’m still paying the fare to arrive at 2231 which is more expensive compared to arriving an hour late, but I’ll be arriving an hour late which costed lower price if that make sense?

Ok, but you would still have had to split at least once, as there are no Northern Advances/Rail Sale fares from Warrington West to Lancaster. So in essence the cost of the TPE fare is what you've overpaid by.

Given the circumstances there's no harm in putting in a Delay Repay claim and seeing what Northern come back with. A complimentary Northern return would likely be of much more value than any compensation you're entitled to, whether under the old or new NRCoT.

If that claim is refused, then it comes down to whether you want to raise a claim for the amount you've overpaid by. Unless you paid a notable sum for the TPE fare, I'd say it's not worthwhile pursuing.

It’s tomorrow. The train existed at the time I booked so I was able to purchase advance ticket.

It's still running from what I can see. Nothing in JourneyCheck yet either (cancellations typically get added in the small hours of the morning).

 

[trover]

Ok, but you would still have had to split at least once, as there are no Northern Advances/Rail Sale fares from Warrington West to Lancaster. So in essence the cost of the TPE fare is what you've overpaid by.

Yes you get my point.

Given the circumstances there's no harm in putting in a Delay Repay claim and seeing what Northern come back with. A complimentary Northern return would likely be of much more value than any compensation you're entitled to, whether under the old or new NRCoT.

If that claim is refused, then it comes down to whether you want to raise a claim for the amount you've overpaid by. Unless you paid a notable sum for the TPE fare, I'd say it's not worthwhile pursuing.

I’m afraid they will just quote the new NRCoT and reject the claim. It’s definitely very small amount but I’m just doing everything to inconvenience this awful company - cancelling last train frequently and I had one instance where last train cancelled, RRB never turned up, another TOC had to hire taxi for us, and disgracefully delay repay rejected using the excuse of journey was not made by rail!

It's still running from what I can see. Nothing in JourneyCheck yet either (cancellations typically get added in the small hours of the morning).

What I see from NRE…

 

[Watershed]

I’m afraid they will just quote the new NRCoT and reject the claim. It’s definitely very small amount but I’m just doing everything to inconvenience this awful company - cancelling last train frequently and I had one instance where last train cancelled, RRB never turned up, another TOC had to hire taxi for us, and disgracefully delay repay rejected using the excuse of journey was not made by rail!

There is no harm in trying. Worst case scenario, you appeal it as far as you can internally and then take it to the Ombudsman. Of course you could alternatively take it to Court, but whether the time and cost thereof is worthwhile is something you have to decide for yourself!

Right, I now see what you mean. That's a Darwin cancellation (i.e. "on the day") rather than a change to the timetable. I don't think it should prevent you from making a successful claim, as the train should still exist in the database. It's the lack of a train in the database that causes claims to fail in the automatic claim form.

 

[trover]

… then take it to the Ombudsman.

Not again Everyone but I is paid to deal with the case, ultimately I’m the only person who is disappointed from my past experience.

Right, I now see what you mean. That's a Darwin cancellation (i.e. "on the day") rather than a change to the timetable. I don't think it should prevent you from making a successful claim, as the train should still exist in the database. It's the lack of a train in the database that causes claims to fail in the automatic claim form.

What’s the difference actually? The new NRCoT thread contains too much information and is too long to read. Afaik there’s two types of status: ‘cancelled’ and ‘removed from timetable’, and it happens either before 2200 or on or after.

 

[Jason12]

The OP may decide, based on what they can see on NRE, not to turn up at WAW in time to catch the 20:31. But if that train does actually run or some other arrangement is put in place to get to MCO in time for the booked TP to PRE, none of their advances would be liable to be accepted on the later trains. In that case, rather than claiming anything through Delay Repay, they could be looking at having to purchase new tickets.

It's not that unusual for services showing as cancelled to be reinstated. It happened to me the other day where I got to the station in good time for a train which was showing as cancelled on the departure display. I had an advance ticket, so knew it would be a matter of waiting more than an hour for the next service. Luckily I didn't decide to head for the pub, because 5 mins before advertised departure the train was reinstated and left on time.

 

[Watershed]

Not again Everyone but I is paid to deal with the case, ultimately I’m the only person who is disappointed from my past experience.

Unfortunately the rail industry is very poor at delivering what it promises, let alone good customer service. So this arguably shouldn't come as a surprise

What’s the difference actually? The new NRCoT thread contains too much information and is too long to read. Afaik there’s two types of status: ‘cancelled’ and ‘removed from timetable’, and it happens either before 2200 or on or after.

As you say, a train which is cancelled is clearly different from one which has been entirely removed from the timetable - even though the end effect for the customer, and the manner in which these actions are undertaken, are largely the same.

Unless the timetable is updated to remove the train from NRE's listed results by 10pm, I don't think you need to particularly worry about your claim being rejected. I don't think the new NRCoT have really changed TOCs' processes for handling claims either - they just put into writing what was already happening in practice.

 

[Starmill]

The ombudsman are quite weak in that if you reach an impasse with the TOC, the Ombudsman is very unlikely to uphold a claim if the TOC explains that they're not obliged to pay out (which is what will happen), regardless of any flaws in the TOC's reasoning. Unfortunately they're all you have beyond the possibility of a chargeback (not the easiest with some card issuers, and if they don't decide in your favour then you can only refer them to the Financial Ombudsman on very limited grounds), or making a claim in the County Court (requires you to pay a fee upfront).

 

[trover]

The OP may decide, based on what they can see on NRE, not to turn up at WAW in time to catch the 20:31. But if that train does actually run or some other arrangement is put in place to get to MCO in time for the booked TP to PRE, none of their advances would be liable to be accepted on the later trains. In that case, rather than claiming anything through Delay Repay, they could be looking at having to purchase new tickets.

It's not that unusual for services showing as cancelled to be reinstated. It happened to me the other day where I got to the station in good time for a train which was showing as cancelled on the departure display. I had an advance ticket, so knew it would be a matter of waiting more than an hour for the next service. Luckily I didn't decide to head for the pub, because 5 mins before advertised departure the train was reinstated and left on time.

Good point! I’ve had LNR reinstated a train from London just a few hours before departure luckily I checked again when I should’ve originally set off for tube. Will do the same and tweet the TOC tomorrow. Cheers!

Unfortunately the rail industry is very poor at delivering what it promises, let alone good customer service. So this arguably shouldn't come as a surprise

It offers even less than what ‘avg UK customer service’ would give to customers IMO

As you say, a train which is cancelled is clearly different from one which has been entirely removed from the timetable - even though the end effect for the customer, and the manner in which these actions are undertaken, are largely the same.

That means the underlying reason (e.g. shortage of crews) may be the same and TOCs are free to choose between the two, whatever fit them the best (very likely a timetable change in terms of delay repay)? Why would NT keep the train on the timetable and cancel it prior 2200 (in this case) instead of removing it (ofc we don’t know yet)?

Unless the timetable is updated to remove the train from NRE's listed results by 10pm, I don't think you need to particularly worry about your claim being rejected. I don't think the new NRCoT have really changed TOCs' processes for handling claims either - they just put into writing what was already happening in practice.

We’ll wait and see

The ombudsman are quite weak in that if you reach an impasse with the TOC, the Ombudsman is very unlikely to uphold a claim if the TOC explains that they're not obliged to pay out (which is what will happen), regardless of any flaws in the TOC's reasoning. Unfortunately they're all you have beyond the possibility of a chargeback (not the easiest with some card issuers, and if they don't decide in your favour then you can only refer them to the Financial Ombudsman on very limited grounds), or making a claim in the County Court (requires you to pay a fee upfront).

It’s terrible that the ombudsman would elaborate based on what the TOC invented instead of looking into the regulations itself and apply common sense plus legal viewpoints. This is really what I’ve encountered. Many of the cases IMO should’ve been dealt within the ombudsman level rather than requiring the use of court action, which increases complexity, costs, and wasted court time. It’s just public transportation, it should be simple to use or else who would give up their cars?

An update: What happened in my previous post happened exactly the same again today.

As the WAW - MCO train is still showing as cancelled, I went to a ticket office when I was changing trains in my outward journey. The staff refused to endorse the tickets because ‘it’s another company’, claiming I have to use the earlier WAW - MCO train to avoid missing onward connections which is absolutely nonsense (he contradicted himself by telling me advance tickets is only valid for specified trains), or I’ve to pay £5 to amend the tickets (idk where this comes from). I told him I’m entitled to use the next available WAW - MCO train and mentioned condition 28.2 of NRCoT to him but he didn’t care. Because of his incompetence and poor attitude I recorded our argument conversation and taken a picture of him for following up later.

Any advice on what I should do next today? @Watershed Complaints can be worried later.

 

[Jason12]

Any advice on what should I do next today?

Using your ticket to travel on the next service from WAW (d 21.30) will be allowed, but not if the 20:31 actually runs. Although it's currently showing as cancelled, it may be reinstated or some other arrangements may be made to get you from WAW to MCO. Asking for your tickets to be endorsed for travel on other trains before the 20:31 has failed to show is jumping the gun IMO, so I think the ticket office was right to decline. In the eventuality it doesn't show and there's no replacement bus arranged, you can just board the 21:30. No need for ticket endorsement.

If, due to cancellations or delays, you can't get to MCO in time for the booked TP to PRE, you would normally have the right (under Condition 9.4 of NRCoT) to travel on the next TP service. But there isn't one. You would be effectively stranded. It's only at that point that Condition 28.2 would apply and although your ticket to PRE is not valid on Northern's service, it will be the most reasonable way of completing your journey through to Lancaster.

Advice?? If it is not too much trouble, I would get to WAW in time to catch your booked train at 20:31. In the unlikely event it does run, you'll be in Lancaster as planned. Otherwise, if no other arrangements have been made for passengers to MCO, travel on the next train at 21:30. Then speak to the guard of the Northern service to Lancaster and explain that although your ticket to PRE is for TP, you are stranded. Make a note of the time you arrive in Lancaster and claim Delay Repay from Northern versus your scheduled arrival time.

 

[Starmill]

Asking for your tickets to be endorsed for travel on other trains before the 20:31 has failed to show is jumping the gun IMO, so I think the ticket office was right to decline.

Firstly, the post does not say that they declined, it says that they told the customer they were obliged to depart earlier.

Secondly, once the train is shown as cancelled, it is reasonably necessary to act on the assumption that it will not be running. Reinstatements are of course always possible, but they're exceptionally rare and it's very poor advice to act as if there's genuinely some doubt. If the train is showing as cancelled eight hours in advance that has been done for a reason. You don't just second guess it.

In the eventuality it doesn't show and there's no replacement bus arranged, you can just board the 21:30. No need for ticket endorsement.

This is correct but I'm unsure why you're bringing up a replacement bus? Northern's policy is not to provide alternative travel options for delays of two hours or less so I don't know why you think an exception might be made for this train and road transport provided? Obviously it's possible but it's so unlikely I'm not sure it's worth considering.

If it is not too much trouble, I would get to WAW in time to catch your booked train at 20:31. In the unlikely event it does run, you'll be in Lancaster as planned.

This is terrible advice.

 

[Jason12]

I have suggested what I would do, while noting it's unlikely the 20:31 will run. Of course the OP can take other, better advice.

 

[trover]

Using your ticket to travel on the next service from WAW (d 21.30) will be allowed, but not if the 20:31 actually runs. Although it's currently showing as cancelled, it may be reinstated or some other arrangements may be made to get you from WAW to MCO. Asking for your tickets to be endorsed for travel on other trains before the 20:31 has failed to show is jumping the gun IMO, so I think the ticket office was right to decline. In the eventuality it doesn't show and there's no replacement bus arranged, you can just board the 21:30. No need for ticket endorsement.

If, due to cancellations or delays, you can't get to MCO in time for the booked TP to PRE, you would normally have the right (under Condition 9.4 of NRCoT) to travel on the next TP service. But there isn't one. You would be effectively stranded. It's only at that point that Condition 28.2 would apply and although your ticket to PRE is not valid on Northern's service, it will be the most reasonable way of completing your journey through to Lancaster.

Indeed no endorsement is required to board the next available WAW - MCO train if the original one is cancelled. But tickets for onward connections has to be endorsed to be valid esp. for different companies.

I think it isn’t uncommon for passengers to seek help from ticket office immediately once they discover disruption to their journey, esp. when doing so before hand can prevent journey being further delayed. A few hours before travel is reasonable IMO.

Advice?? If it is not too much trouble, I would get to WAW in time to catch your booked train at 20:31. In the unlikely event it does run, you'll be in Lancaster as planned. Otherwise, if no other arrangements have been made for passengers to MCO, travel on the next train at 21:30. Then speak to the guard of the Northern service to Lancaster and explain that although your ticket to PRE is for TP, you are stranded. Make a note of the time you arrive in Lancaster and claim Delay Repay from Northern versus your scheduled arrival time.

I personally (and many) wouldn’t rely on verbal advices as staff members can give wrong advices and bear no consequences therefore risky to passengers. More importantly there’s no guarantee of how staff members on NT train from MCO to LAN will behave. Seeking for assistance asap remains the best option to me.

 

[Jason12]

I personally (and many) wouldn’t rely on verbal advices as staff members can give wrong advices and bear no consequences therefore risky to passengers. More importantly there’s no guarantee of how staff members on NT train from MCO to LAN will behave.

That's all true. You should ask to have the ticket(s) endorsed, at that point.

I think it isn’t uncommon for passengers to seek help from ticket office immediately once they discover disruption to their journey, esp. when doing so before hand can prevent journey being further delayed. A few hours before travel is reasonable IMO.

Yes, seeking help from railway staff is advisable as soon as you're aware there may be a problem. But the information you got from the ticket office today was incorrect. If the first booked train is showing as cancelled, you don't have to catch an earlier train in order keep to the rest of your booked services. You clearly realised what you were being told was incorrect, but endorsing your tickets for travel on specific trains will only be necessary if and when you become stranded and the railway decides travelling on those trains is the best way for you to get to your destination.

 

[trover]

You clearly realised what you were being told was incorrect, but endorsing your tickets for travel on specific trains will only be necessary if and when you become stranded and the railway decides travelling on those trains is the best way for you to get to your destination.

Leaving the request to endorse tickets to the last minute would leave me with no Plan B. I appreciate you feel that requesting endorsement at the point of cancellation may be more appropriate, it’s still a safer option in practice for me to seek assistance asap.
As @Starmill mentioned we can expect the train is almost certainly to be cancelled. This is foreseeable that that would result in me being stranded. I do believe correct advice and arrangements should be completed at the same time.

Luckily although authorisation was not granted at ticket office, I still have ample time before the scheduled departure to execute my plan B. I’m now authorised by live chat to travel all the way to Lancaster with NT. Interesting to see how big the discrepancy between the answer given by the live chat team and the ticket office which both are hired by the same TOC, one giving correct advices while another doing the opposite. Thank you all for the contribution.

 

[Jason12]

Very glad to hear the TOC has arranged a way for you to get to your destination, although delayed.

 

[trover]

An update: NT rejected my delay repay claim because “they are unable to find a timetabled journey that matches my claim”. Disgusting and incompetent ticket office staff and delay repay team!

 

[Watershed]

An update: NT rejected my delay repay claim because “they are unable to find a timetabled journey that matches my claim”. Disgusting and incompetent ticket office staff and delay repay team!

Appeal it. I had much the same problem when I recently made a claim under similar sorts of circumstances. It was then paid.

 

[trover]

Appeal it. I had much the same problem when I recently made a claim under similar sorts of circumstances. It was then paid.

I did, despite having another appeal for also a valid claim still in progress with them.

They just give me an impression that they love inconveniencing their customers multiple times - cancellation so journey delayed -> wrong advices given so customers have to shop ard for authorisation -> rejecting claims so customers have to spend extra time.

 

[trover]

An update again: NT rejected my appeal, this time they invented another explanation “due to the impact's of COVID and the staffing challenges caused as result of the impact to our driver training program Northern like many other Train operators are operating amended timetables, Delay repay compensation is based on the advertised timetable at 10pm before the day of travel”, without mentioning the exact reason of rejection.

In fact the service was “cancelled” instead of “removed from timetable”, which I believe delay repay is payable. How should I respond to them?

 

[Watershed]

An update again: NT rejected my appeal, this time they invented another explanation “due to the impact's of COVID and the staffing challenges caused as result of the impact to our driver training program Northern like many other Train operators are operating amended timetables, Delay repay compensation is based on the advertised timetable at 10pm before the day of travel”, without mentioning the exact reason of rejection.

In fact the service was “cancelled” instead of “removed from timetable”, which I believe delay repay is payable. How should I respond to them?

It's probably worth raising a complaint at this stage (I don't think their system has a functionality to re-appeal a claim). Raising a complaint also starts the clock ticking on your ability to take things further. I would raise the following points:

1. the service was still in the advertised timetable at 10pm the night before - it wasn't removed, just shown as cancelled
2. you consider the NRCoT's and their Charter's purported exclusion of compensation in such circumstances an unfair term in a consumer contract, under the Consumer Rights Act 2015, and hence unenforceable
3. they cannot pay less than the PRO minimum, which is payable based on the delay as compared to the published timetable. The PRO do not define "published timetable" but this does not necessarily mean that the TOCs can insert their own definition to suit them using the NRCoT. It takes its ordinary, i.e. dictionary, meaning. It is clearly insupportable to suggest the TOC can unilaterally vary the published timetable 24 hours out, without even notifying the passenger. Particularly so in the circumstances of an Advance ticket which is only valid on the booked service!

Feel free to post your draft complaint here for feedback.

 

[Merseysider]

I am sending you a PM with some contacts in Northern I have. Also follow any other advice given by forum members.

 

[trover]

It's probably worth raising a complaint at this stage (I don't think their system has a functionality to re-appeal a claim). Raising a complaint also starts the clock ticking on your ability to take things further. I would raise the following points:

1. the service was still in the advertised timetable at 10pm the night before - it wasn't removed, just shown as cancelled
2. you consider the NRCoT's and their Charter's purported exclusion of compensation in such circumstances an unfair term in a consumer contract, under the Consumer Rights Act 2015, and hence unenforceable
3. they cannot pay less than the PRO minimum, which is payable based on the delay as compared to the published timetable. The PRO do not define "published timetable" but this does not necessarily mean that the TOCs can insert their own definition to suit them using the NRCoT. It takes its ordinary, i.e. dictionary, meaning. It is clearly insupportable to suggest the TOC can unilaterally vary the published timetable 24 hours out, without even notifying the passenger. Particularly so in the circumstances of an Advance ticket which is only valid on the booked service!

Feel free to post your draft complaint here for feedback.

Thanks @Watershed for your help! I’ve drafted part of the letter, but I’m not sure about mentioning the PRO as it seems to limit compensation to a 25% minimum vs 100% in the NRCoT? Is it better to rely on the NRCoT or the PRO this time or have I missed something? Do I cite/describe the Consumer Rights Act correctly? And is there anything that I should amend? Any comments would be much appreciated, cheers.

To whom it may concern,

I am writing to raise a formal complaint regarding a delay repay claim (NT-xxxx-xxx-xxx) decision made by your team on 2 June, for a journey made on 21 May.

The trains booked with my combination of tickets:
20:31 Northern from Warrington West to Manchester Oxford Road
21:25 TPE from Manchester Oxford Road to Preston
22:11 Northern from Preston to Lancaster

Unfortunately, due to the cancellation of your train from Warrington West to Manchester Oxford Road, I was forced to use the next available Northern service from Warrington West to Manchester Oxford Road, which resulted in missing my onward connections.

As the last train of the day for onward connections with the booked operator has departed, to avoid being stranded I used the next Northern service from Manchester Oxford Road to Lancaster after authorisation was given by your staff member. I ended up arriving at my destination more than 60 minutes late compared to my schedule.

Your delay repay team rejected my claim for the reason that the 20:31 from Warrington West to Manchester Oxford Road did not exist in the timetable since 22:00 the day before departure. However this is not true. It was shown as cancelled rather than being removed from the timetable. The evasion of compensation by your company constitutes an unfair term in a consumer contract, according to the Consumer Rights Act 2015.

[proposed insert of PRO]

Therefore delay compensation remains payable. I request the decision to be reviewed and the correct amount of compensation to be paid in the form of a cheque.

Regards
trover

I am sending you a PM with some contacts in Northern I have. Also follow any other advice given by forum members.

Thanks a lot! PM replied.

 

[Watershed]

Thanks @Watershed for your help! I’ve drafted part of the letter, but I’m not sure about mentioning the PRO as it seems to limit compensation to a 25% minimum vs 100% in the NRCoT?

Yes, if limited to PRO compensation then clearly you would receive less. However it is still a useful thing to put in, in my view, as it shows that they cannot wholly exclude compensation.

Is it better to rely on the NRCoT or the PRO this time or have I missed something? Do I cite/describe the Consumer Rights Act correctly? And is there anything that I should amend? Any comments would be much appreciated, cheers.

Here's a slightly redrafted version of your letter

Dear Sir / Madam,

I am writing to raise a formal complaint regarding a delay repay claim (NT-xxxx-xxx-xxx) decision made by your team on 2 June, for a journey made on 21 May.

I had booked to travel on the following services:
20:31 Northern from Warrington West to Manchester Oxford Road
21:25 TPE from Manchester Oxford Road to Preston
22:11 Northern from Preston to Lancaster

I held the following tickets:
[Insert details]

Unfortunately, due to the cancellation of your 20:31 train from Warrington West to Manchester Oxford Road, I was forced to wait an hour for the next available service from Warrington West to Manchester Oxford Road, the 21:29. As a result, I missed my onward connections at Manchester Oxford Road and Preston.

By the time I arrived at Manchester Oxford Road, the last TPE train of the day to Preston had already left. Therefore, to avoid being stranded I used the next available Northern service from Manchester Oxford Road to Lancaster, the 22:29. This service was also delayed and I ended up arriving at Lancaster (my destination) at 23:50, 79 minutes late compared to my scheduled arrival time.

Your delay repay team have rejected my claim, claiming that the 20:31 from Warrington West to Manchester Oxford Road did not exist in the timetable at 22:00 the day before departure. However, this is simply not true - although it was indicated as cancelled, it was still shown in the timetable.

Furthermore, basing compensation on the timetable advertised at 22:00 the night before would give you the ability to unilaterally alter the fundamental terms of the contract at your sole discretion, without any requirement to notify me of these changes. This would plainly be an unfair term in a consumer contract (under paragraphs 2, 11-13 and 16-18 of Schedule 2 of the Consumer Rights Act 2015), and therefore unenforceable. This is particularly the case in the context of Advance tickets, which I held for my journey.

Moreover, under Article 17(1) of EU Regulation 1371/2007 on Rail Passengers' Rights and Obligations (PRO), I am entitled to a minimum of 25% compensation for a delay of 1-2 hours, as in this case. Under Article 3(12), delays are calculated based on the "published timetable", which is not specifically defined and therefore takes its everyday meaning.

No reasonable person would believe that the service shown on National Rail Enquiries at 22:00 the day before departure, in this case radically altered from what was in place when I bought my ticket, constitutes the "published" timetable. Article 6(1) of the PRO excludes the possibility of rights being limited or waived by conditions of carriage. Therefore, even if the Delay Repay exclusions you alluded to were deemed a fair term in a consumer contract, I would still be entitled to compensation as set out in the PRO.

Whilst I appreciate that you are currently experiencing a shortage of traincrew, this is ultimately an issue entirely within your responsibility and which, as you admit, has existed for some time now. Therefore it is your responsibility to ensure that the timetable, on the basis of which tickets are sold, accurately reflects the service you are able to offer. It is not unreasonable that you must carry financial consequences where you fail to live up to your promises, and cause inconvenience as in my case.

Accordingly, delay compensation remains payable in full. I look forward to receiving [quote amount] in compensation in the form of a cheque. Should you be unwilling to comply with your obligations in this respect, I would ask that you respond by means of a 'deadlock letter' so that I may take further steps to pursue this matter.

Yours faithfully,

trover

 

[trover]

Yes, if limited to PRO compensation then clearly you would receive less. However it is still a useful thing to put in, in my view, as it shows that they cannot wholly exclude compensation.


Here's a slightly redrafted version of your letter

Thanks so much! That makes the letter much more comprehensive. Just one question: should I add a sentence explicitly saying the compensation amount should be based on the NRCoT which is more advantageous to passenger, or it’s implied?

 

[Watershed]

Thanks so much! That makes the letter much more comprehensive. Just one question: should I add a sentence explicitly saying the compensation amount should be based on the NRCoT which is more advantageous to passenger, or it’s implied?

Provided the amount you insert in the last paragraph is the NRCoT amount, it should be obvious

 

[trover]

Good news! NT agreed to pay out the correct amount of compensation. Thank you all for the contribution