• We're pleased to advise that our booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk, which helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase, has had some recent improvements, including PlusBus support. Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

Train/Carriage Aerodynamics – Azuma, Pendolino and others

Status
Not open for further replies.

chiltern trev

Member
Joined
28 Mar 2011
Messages
381
Location
near Carlisle
RAIL issue 921 has a side view of an Azuma and a Pendolino on the cover. Both views are full side on and so you can clearly see all the way underneath the carriage.

So it got me thinking about the undercarriage aerodynamics, or not, and then on a wider aerodynamic thinking.

Clearly, the there has been a frontal aerodynamic consideration, but what about other stuff that looks less aerodynamic or varies between trains/carriages?

Passenger doors – recessed or plug? I would have thought a plug door with a smooth bodyside profile is more aerodynamic and weatherproof. A recessed sliding door (Azuma and Javelin) surely is going to disturb the airflow as well as cold air going past the door seal, water ingress through a door seal and then a cold inner panel on the inside of the door pocket (met line A stock was very bad for cold inner panels).

The Azuma shown has recessed grab rails for the cab door so the grab rail are not protruding so some effort there. There are no grab rails shown on the Pendolino – does this mean the driver opens the door first and the grab rails are inside?

Undercarriage stuff. Appears to have a ‘continuous side panel’ on both, similar to Mk3 carriages, so presenting a smoother side profile. So essentially there appears to be a huge under carriage box, with a ‘smooth’ flat bottom and flat blunt end. Does the flat blunt facing the bogie give rise to aerodynamic losses or is a clean flat vertical blunt end the best compromise. Clearly the angle of the blunt end can have a spoiler effect creating lift or down drag and down drag would be more preferable to lift.

And then roof mounted equipment where some designs have a smoothing effect into and out any roof well and other have a vertical drop into a pantograph well. Before considering the effect of the pantograph and insulating pots, etc that sit in the well.

Body jacking points - on the Pendolino these are obvious in the picture and appear top protrude outwards with external bodyside re-inforcing visible in the immediate vicinty of the jacking point- thus sticking out a bit creating a dirty airflow.. On the Azume, these are not visible, so perhaps more built into the internal side of the body panel/floor/etc.

Or maybe the biggest aerodynamic, and thus energy and fuel cost efficiency, is mostly gained by the frontal appearance and all the other considerations are negligible.
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

fgwrich

Established Member
Joined
15 Apr 2009
Messages
9,094
Location
Between Edinburgh and Exeter
Regarding the undercarriage designs, the Pendolino is fully enclosed underneath similar to a Mk3. The IET Design isn't - it just uses side panels, with many items underneath exposed. Which is why we were warned that, in the case of any incident where we had to recover anything from underneath an IET (e.g, persons or items), we had to wait until a Hitachi engineer could be sent out to electrically isolate the unit.

Roof wise, I find the IET rather annoying. They both in effect have flat roofs, with items bolted on. But the Alstom Pendolino design at least uses more aerodynamic coving panels which I feel also reduces noise. The IET's don't has as much (certainly nothing as tall running along the roof of the coach) but they do have some covering over some of the roof items. But, they certainly seem to add to the noise (particularly if your travelling in the leading coach).
 
Last edited:

jopsuk

Veteran Member
Joined
13 May 2008
Messages
12,768
Passenger doors – recessed or plug? I would have thought a plug door with a smooth bodyside profile is more aerodynamic and weatherproof. A recessed sliding door (Azuma and Javelin) surely is going to disturb the airflow as well as cold air going past the door seal, water ingress through a door seal and then a cold inner panel on the inside of the door pocket (met line A stock was very bad for cold inner panels).
Even the latest shinkansen with their complex long aerodynamic noses (needed to manage shockwaves at tunnels and other structures), with underside fairings, covered bogies, flexible fairings between carriages, smooth roofs and more, have recessed sliding doors.
 

DB

Guest
Joined
18 Nov 2009
Messages
5,036
Regarding the undercarriage designs, the Pendolino is fully enclosed underneath similar to a Mk3. The IET Design isn't - it just uses side panels, with many items underneath exposed. Which is why we were warned that, in the case of any incident where we had to recover anything from underneath an IET, we had to wait until a Hitachi engineer could be sent out to electrically isolate the unit.

That does seem a bit of a retrograde step - and cosmetically it also looks messy.

As well as Mk3s and 4, All 22x units plus the 180 and Pendolino have enclosed underframe equiopment.
 

Irascible

Established Member
Joined
21 Apr 2020
Messages
1,891
Location
Dyfneint
Side shape isn't a great factor at 125mph ( as was said about the Shinkansen even the nose is a lot about managing changes in air pressure ). I think I have a paper on the subject somewhere ( messy underbody equipment etc ), I'll see if I can dig it up. Bogies are mostly invisible to the airflow down the train, if you look at the end of one it's almost transparent - probably vortices from the carriage ends interacting but again it's not really that fast, and a bit from the wheels. Vortices from underbody gear might well pick up ballast though, that'd be worth reading up on.

Making the train into a continuous tube would certainly be better aerodynamically, but then you've got to consider extra mass & maintenance, etc...
 
Last edited:

supervc-10

Member
Joined
4 Mar 2012
Messages
695
Like anything, it's about whether it's worth the costs. Are the energy cost reductions from improving aerodynamics worth the extra cost/hassle of fairing everything in? Even some much faster machines have aerodynamically 'messy' things, due to costs. The Boeing 737 has always had uncovered main landing gear wheels- they sit roughly flush to the belly of the plane, but it would be smoother aerodynamically to fair them in properly. The 737 is a short haul aircraft, and the extra drag from the unfaired wheels is offset by the lower maintenance costs, as those doors would be opening and closing several times a day, and need more maintenance than it's worth.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top