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train companies and tickets

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alan

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19 Jun 2009
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Location
east midlands
hello there,

just wondered if anyone could tell me (or tell me where I can find out) how the fare charged for a ticket is split between train companies: for example I often buy an off peak return from Attenborough to Sheffield priced at £11.10 with a railcard. With there being no ticket office at the station I would buy it on an east midlands train (or occasionally crosscountry) and then change at Nottingham to a Northern rail train (or occasionally EMT). So assuming I bought the ticket on an EMT and then traveled the main leg of the journey on northern who would receive the bulk of the fare?

Alan
 
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glynn80

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1 Jun 2008
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1,666
hello there,

just wondered if anyone could tell me (or tell me where I can find out) how the fare charged for a ticket is split between train companies: for example I often buy an off peak return from Attenborough to Sheffield priced at £11.10 with a railcard. With there being no ticket office at the station I would buy it on an east midlands train (or occasionally crosscountry) and then change at Nottingham to a Northern rail train (or occasionally EMT). So assuming I bought the ticket on an EMT and then traveled the main leg of the journey on northern who would receive the bulk of the fare?

Alan

Under the Ticketing Settlement Agreement, there are two methods of allocating revenue between TOCs. The first is the ORCATS (Operational Research Computerised Allocation of Tickets to Services) model; however if the parties believe that ORCATS is not allocating revenues correctly the second is for the train operating companies themselves to agree the allocation method. There is a last-resort dispute resolution process in cases where companies cannot agree.

ORCATS is a behavioural model employing mathematical techniques to predict how passengers behave in their choice of train services for a journey. Having predicted how passengers choose between different trains, ORCATS then derives the allocations based on the mileage travelled on each of the services involved. Derived allocations are used as a basis for sharing revenue between TOCs. ORCATS considers the following factors to estimate the split of passengers between train services, i.e. the proportion of passengers choosing a particular train service. All factors were derived from extensive passenger and market research surveys:

  • The demand for train travel by time of day and day of week. Demand profiles used by ORCATS show the split of day demand into 15-minute time bands. ORCATS uses separate demand profiles for weekdays, Saturday and Sunday travel.
  • Train speed; this is measured by journey time.
  • Number of interchanges; the number of times a passenger has to change trains to complete the journey.
  • Waiting time; this is measured as the difference between the train start time and the ideal departure time which is taken as the mid-point of each 15-minute time band.
The model considers passenger preferences for speed, number of interchanges and waiting time. It also considers the interaction between the factors, for example, it considers the trade off between speed and waiting time. The model then applies these factors to the train timetable available to passengers between each origin and destination and derives passenger preferences for particular train services.

Revenue allocation does not correspond to loadings, and is purely timetable driven. Under ORCATS, revenue is always allocated to the fastest train, so even if a train is the second to leave the station, if it overtakes another, it receives the full allocation of revenue. ORCATS cannot take qualitative factors into account, for example, where passengers choose to take a slower train because it is perceived as better.

Furthermore ORCATS does not take account of capacity constraints. If a train is full or nearly full by the time it arrives at a station, ORCATS continues to allocate revenue to that particular service. Because the system is timetable driven, situations such as ORCATS raiding can occur, where extra trains are slotted in front of another operator’s and thus their revenue is reallocated.


To answer the OPs question directly, the retailer who administers each ticket is entitled to commission from each sale. This varies depending on the method of purchase, but if a ticket is purchased on train, the rate of commission is the National Standard which is 2% for Season Tickets and 9% for all other Rail Products. So the Off Peak Return you purchase from EMT, 9% of that revenue will go directly to EMT with the remaining 91% allocated (mostly likely) via ORCATS, between each of the TOCs it is possible for you to travel on with an Attenborough to Sheffield Any Permitted ticket, using the methods outlined above.
 
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jopsuk

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13 May 2008
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12,773
I take it opertator-specific tickets (such as the NXEA-only and FCC-only options) are channeled sperately- the ooutlet that sells them gets a cut, then the appropriate operator gets all that revenue? Does the same also apply for specific-train Adavance tickets?
 

glynn80

Established Member
Joined
1 Jun 2008
Messages
1,666
I take it opertator-specific tickets (such as the NXEA-only and FCC-only options) are channeled sperately- the ooutlet that sells them gets a cut, then the appropriate operator gets all that revenue? Does the same also apply for specific-train Adavance tickets?

ORCATS is only used to allocate revenue for through and inter-available fares.

  • A through fare is valid for a journey which involves the use of the trains operated by more than one TOC.
  • An inter-available fare entitles the purchaser, in making the journey, to choose between trains of more than one TOC.

So Advance tickets can and are allocated via ORCATS, if they involve the use of more than one TOC and are thus a through fare. An example of this may be an FGW+Connections fare. There is a slightly altered operation at the end of the ORCATS process, regarding Advance fares, the majority of revenue is proportioned on a mileage basis rather than the other factors mentioned above, seeing as most people are restricted to a specific service that they can catch with these fares.

Moving away from Advance fares, there is in fact a sizeable amount of revenue not allocated by ORCATS. Most of this revenue represents sales of items that are not flow-specific or cannot be attributed to a flow and therefore can not be allocated by ORCATS. This revenue is divided as follows:

  • Revenue from journeys where annual ticket sales revenue is less than £50. Processing time and the size of allocations files would increase vastly if this was allocated by ORCATS.
  • Revenue from flows where details of origin and/or destination stations are incomplete. It would be difficult to attribute this to particular flows. This revenue often comes from paper tickets and excess fares books. Wherever possible TOCs should be ensuring complete details are entered on paper tickets sold.
  • Revenue from sales of passes and Railcards such as BritRail passes and Young Persons Railcards.
  • Non-train journey revenue such as car parking.
  • Agreements with third parties (private settlement), such as: payment for the non-rail portion of tickets, for example, admission to Alton Towers.
  • Revenue from tickets sold by Transport for London and regional PTE outlets. For example, Travelcards and multi-modal tickets which allow train travel.
  • Revenue from some London Travelcards sold by TOCs which is allocated by the Travelcard and Inter-TOC pools. This represents travel within London Travelcard zones and is allocated using a separate method. This method involves a survey requiring passengers to record details of journeys made. ATOC negotiates the methodology with Transport for London on behalf of TOCs.
 
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alan

Member
Joined
19 Jun 2009
Messages
23
Location
east midlands
oh thanks very much, so would a fare taken on board a train for a single journey still be calculated by the ORCATS system despite the fact you're blatantly using a particular TOC?
 

glynn80

Established Member
Joined
1 Jun 2008
Messages
1,666
oh thanks very much, so would a fare taken on board a train for a single journey still be calculated by the ORCATS system despite the fact you're blatantly using a particular TOC?

Yes the revenue would still be allocated via ORCATS.

ORCATS is not sufficiently advanced enough to take into account factors such as those mentioned by yourself and many do argue it has fundamental flaws. But the major advantages of the ORCATS process are:
  • It can apply passenger preferences quickly and easily to any timetable changes, i.e. it is responsive to timetable change.
  • It is more cost effective than alternative methods, for example, surveying the entire network which may be required each time the timetable changes. Currently, TOCs introduce a new timetable twice a year.
  • It apparently provides a reasonably accurate basis for allocating passenger revenue.
 
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