Train companies claiming to have "longer carriages"

[Jurg]

I got an email today from Cross Country giving information about changes in the May timetable, Covid-19, etc. One of the paragraphs (attached) rather strangely states that some routes will be getting longer carriages. Do they mean more carriages, or are they introducing different rolling stock??

 

[Bletchleyite]

I suspect that's someone having got confused between "longer trains" and "more carriages". Anything in their fleet or likely to be in it has 23m vehicles.

 

[Jurg]

I suspect that's someone having got confused between "longer trains" and "more carriages". Anything in their fleet or likely to be in it has 23m vehicles.

That was my assumption. But I'd have thought they would have proof-read an email that presumably has been sent out to all of their registered customers.

 

[dk1]

That was my assumption. But I'd have thought they would have proof-read an email that presumably has been sent out to all of their registered customers.

Me too Its rather embarrassing.

 

[keith1879]

That was my assumption. But I'd have thought they would have proof-read an email that presumably has been sent out to all of their registered customers.

In most areas of communication I feel that precision is now at an all time low. When I started at work many years ago we used to joke about the effort put into drafting/redrafting a single message.....however the output rarely contained factual errors.

 

[lammergeier]

I imagine it either means more trains running, or a few voyager and 170 diagrams which previously were double set and went single during lockdown are double again. Either that or increased use of HST's.

 

[Bletchleyite]

That was my assumption. But I'd have thought they would have proof-read an email that presumably has been sent out to all of their registered customers.

Unfortunately there seems to be a trend away from properly doing this in modern days.

 

[rebmcr]

18m HST power cars replaced with 23m Voyager driving cars.

(With requisite 23m trailer swaps).

 

[PHILIPE]

There is a thread already in the COVID Sub Forum.

Rail services to be increased on May 18th

From the BBC this morning: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-52584983 There are plans to increase train services from Monday 18 May across Britain, in preparation for the eventual easing of travel restrictions. Does this mean that services will definitely be increased on 18th May or is...

www.railforums.co.uk

.

 

[david1212]

Aside from the wording other than returning trains to full length i.e. if reduced to one DMU reinstating two or likewise two Voyagers where can XC rustle up more stock unless the number of trains run is still cut given that for the timetable and allocations up to March they were already ' sweating the assets ' ?

Back in 2007 when the franchise was retendered it should have included increasing the Voyager fleet by around 50% as even then a chronic lack of capacity. All that happened was a few seats in place of the buffet. Whether all sets made 6 car or just increasing some to 8 car would be a debate on it's own. If by now the MML was fully electric there would have been a second opportunity as logically the Meridian sets would have transferred to XC. Instead they and ultimately we as passengers are stuck with the same fun-size trains as introduced by Virgin. Passengers with cheaper advance tickets getting a seat over those with full price tickets is a major gripe too.

 

[PG]

Instead they and ultimately we as passengers are stuck with the same fun-size trains as introduced by Virgin.

An excellent description of a Voyager! Reminds me of the disappointment felt upon first encountering fun-size mars bars as a child

 

[PG]

If they fitted vertical mirrors to the interior end vestibule walls that'd give the impression of longer carriages

 

[gimmea50anyday]

Don’t give the DfT any ideas!!!

 

[Energy]

Back in 2007 when the franchise was retendered it should have included increasing the Voyager fleet by around 50% as even then a chronic lack of capacity

Reportedly Virgin's bid involved extending all sets to 6 carriages. Arriva in typical Arriva fashion decided that their solution to capacity was to reintroduce old BR rolling stock and not much of it, so because they were cheaper they got the franchise.

 

[tomwills98]

I thought it was Project Thor, where an extra carriage was added with a pantograph? but it got canned by the gov as Bombardier couldn't build it in the UK as they were already building some London Underground Trains?

 

[Energy]

I thought it was Project Thor, where an extra carriage was added with a pantograph? but it got canned by the gov as Bombardier couldn't build it in the UK as they were already building some London Underground Trains?

The voyagers were never built in the UK anyway, suprised the government axed it for just that it wasn't to be built in the UK, Thameslink 700s were built in Germany and the government procured them. It also didn't stop extra pendolino carriages despite them not being built in the UK.

 

[Domh245]

Bombardier couldn't build it in the UK as they were already building some London Underground Trains?

The reason they couldn't build them in the UK is that Litchurch Lane builds trains out of Aluminium panels whilst the voyagers are all-steel, not because they were building the LU stock

 

[irish_rail]

How many xc services will now be formed of a 4 car voyager? Social distancing on one of those going forward will certainly be interesting....

In an ideal world, xc would take on some of the many stored HSTs , but oh no wait that can't happen. So potentially lives will be lost by covid spread because of (in my view) over the top disability discrimination measures.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The reason they couldn't build them in the UK is that Litchurch Lane builds trains out of Aluminium panels whilst the voyagers are all-steel, not because they were building the LU stock

Bombardier when these were built didn't own what was then AdTranz, anyway. They purchased it later.

 

[DarloRich]

That was my assumption. But I'd have thought they would have proof-read an email that presumably has been sent out to all of their registered customers.

Unfortunately there seems to be a trend away from properly doing this in modern days.

In most areas of communication I feel that precision is now at an all time low. When I started at work many years ago we used to joke about the effort put into drafting/redrafting a single message.....however the output rarely contained factual errors.

We all know it shouldn't happen. I think we should be cutting some slack at this time. None of us are perfect.

 

[PG]

I thought it was Project Thor, where an extra carriage was added with a pantograph? but it got canned by the gov as Bombardier couldn't build it in the UK as they were already building some London Underground Trains?

I recall reading in a recent issue of Modern Railways that upon withdrawal of the Avanti Voyagers they could use one carriage from each set for modification by adding a pantograph and then add these carriages into each XC set. Thus simultaneously reducing the use of diesel under-the-wires and adding a bit (though probably not enough) of additional capacity.
Basically Project Thor without building new carriages.

Given the protracted case of the HST short-set modifications, admittedly involving more bespoke work to older vehicles, it would be a brave person who sanctioned such a course of action over procurement of new stock.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Given the protracted case of the HST short-set modifications, admittedly involving more bespoke work to older vehicles, it would be a brave person who sanctioned such a course of action over procurement of new stock.

Agreed. Just get an order in for 80x. They are clearly perfect for XC. And because they're a proven design they can be in service quickly - just have to train the staff.

 

[alexl92]

Am I misunderstanding here? Why would you add an additional coach to a [diesel] Voyager that has a pantograph?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Am I misunderstanding here? Why would you add an additional coach to a [diesel] Voyager that has a pantograph?

To turn it into a bi-mode.

 

[221129]

So potentially lives will be lost by covid spread because of (in my view) over the top disability discrimination measures.

That's one hell of a stretch!

 

[alexl92]

To turn it into a bi-mode.

Would adding a single, electric-powered coach be sufficient to turn a 5- or 6-car set into an actual bi-mode that could operate to a timetable? It'd have to have some significant power (I know that it is possible to produce a seriously powerful AC electric motor in a single car bodyshell, such as an electric loco, but that's with the whole vehicle dedicated to the power unit which I imagine wouldn't be the case on a voyager)

 

[PG]

Would adding a single, electric-powered coach be sufficient to turn a 5- or 6-car set into an actual bi-mode that could operate to a timetable? It'd have to have some significant power (I know that it is possible to produce a seriously powerful AC electric motor in a single car bodyshell, such as an electric loco, but that's with the whole vehicle dedicated to the power unit which I imagine wouldn't be the case on a voyager)

Voyagers already have the electric motors under each carriage, all the diesel engines do is generate the electricity to power those motors.

Adding one carriage with a pantograph then potentially enables all the motors to be fed from the pantograph. Ok it is a bit more complicated than that, which im sure other members can better explain than I can, but that's the gist of it.

 

[221129]

Would adding a single, electric-powered coach be sufficient to turn a 5- or 6-car set into an actual bi-mode that could operate to a timetable? It'd have to have some significant power (I know that it is possible to produce a seriously powerful AC electric motor in a single car bodyshell, such as an electric loco, but that's with the whole vehicle dedicated to the power unit which I imagine wouldn't be the case on a voyager)

Given that a Voyager is basically an EMU just powered by diesel generators then yes. (A bit more complicated than that but that's the very simple version.)

 

[Starmill]

Agreed. Just get an order in for 80x. They are clearly perfect for XC. And because they're a proven design they can be in service quickly - just have to train the staff.

This would be remarkably expensive for the government, given the financially weak nature of the routes they would be working on. I'm in favour of improvements to service, and large government spending, but this idea comes around frequently and seems to me to be a bit of a leapfrog.

 

[Mordac]

To turn it into a bi-mode.

Will this idea never die?