Train crew stuck in the middle between passengers who are too cold or too hot

[Tetchytyke]

Also, the more people get on, the warmer it gets (hence new aircon for the 700's) so if you warm it up to start with, as soon as people get on, it quickly becomes too hot.

London Midland get around this on the 350s by having the heating and the air conditioning on at the same time. You get a sizzling hot leg and a freezing cold head, which nicely balances out

 

[PermitToTravel]

The use of Twitter here is an utter irrelevance (and I think the mention of signallers is a mistake?)

People won't always agree on a suitable temperature. I seem to recall it recently being said in another thread that it's signed in France that if there's a dispute about the state of a window, it should be closed; surely the climate control analogue of that is that the person complaining it's too cold be given precedence over the person complaining it's too warm?

 

[3141]

And there in a nutshell is what's wrong with the railway's attitude to its customers. "Not my problem, guv".

I'm a passenger and have never worked on a railway. So if my original post summarises "in a nutshell what's wrong with the railway's attitude to its customers" I wonder how I did it.

 

[bramling]

A scenario: passenger approaches member of train crew (who is picking up the unit for the first time) at terminus station and says it's very cold on the train please turn on the heating. Member of train crew agrees and turns heating on (time of day fits in with company instructions for when heating should be on). Passenger thanks member of train crew and train starts it's journey. A few stations down the line the member of train crew is contacted by the signaller and told somebody on Twitter has complained it is too hot on the train and has requested the heating is turned off.

Member of train crew stuck in the middle between passenger who was too cold and passenger who tweeted they were too hot.

When member of train crew assessed the heat level on the train they now found it to be quite comfortable.

Should signallers, drivers and other members of staff really have to be contacted midway through a journey because one person on twitter has claimed it's too hot? Surely each persons idea of a comfortable temperature is different. This member of train crew was a little bit put out that an attempt to make one passenger happy resulted in another becoming unhappy.

Just wondering if others have had similar experiences and what they think about the whole Twitter thing.

I've never heard it happening where I am, I know we do get complaints come in about temperature on the trains, but would normally be passed to the depots for attention - assuming the complainant has given enough information to be able to identify the car concerned.

Certainly where I am, there's little the driver can do. The trains I work with have a switch in the cab which can be used to switch off all heat & vent on the entire train. Unlikely to be used for people complaining about being too hot as the heaters are pretty useless anyway - although you can notice which cars don't have any heat working if walking through the train!

We get a message on the in-cab TMS if there's a heat or vent fault in a given car, but there's nothing the driver can actually do about it apart from switch the aforementioned switch to the off position for a couple of minutes and then back on, this sometimes clears the message. Generally I'd expect the message to come up if the system is defective and off, not for (say) a defective thermostat causing the heating to be stuck on. Wouldn't generally touch the switch in response to a passenger's request, not that I've ever known it, the only other time I'd touch the switch is if there's a burning smell coming from the brake resistors to try and avoid the smell getting into the cars, or occasionally (on a mild day) if a fancy peace & quiet and already have the cab heating/air conditioning off - it's surprising what a difference this makes to sound levels within the cab.

Generally what goes on behind the cab bulkhead is the passengers' problem, my view is that's their area and as long as the train gets safely from A to B then I'm not overly bothered what's going on. I would add that this is on a DOO service, I would expect more attention to passenger comfort on a crew-operated service.

 

[TUC]

Generally what goes on behind the cab bulkhead is the passengers' problem, my view is that's their area and as long as the train gets safely from A to B then I'm not overly bothered what's going on.

What other 21st century industry would get away with saying 'as long as there is the basic function, anything about customers having a good experience doesn't matter?'

 

[A-driver]

What other 21st century industry would get away with saying 'as long as there is the basic function, anything about customers having a good experience doesn't matter?'

Ok, so let's hear your brilliant suggestion then. Driver only train, 12 cars and over 1000 people. How do you suggest the industry makes sure they all travel at a temperature they deem comfortable?!

It's PUBLIC transport. Impossible to please everyone.

 

[TUC]

Ok, so let's hear your brilliant suggestion then. Driver only train, 12 cars and over 1000 people. How do you suggest the industry makes sure they all travel at a temperature they deem comfortable?!

It's PUBLIC transport. Impossible to please everyone.

It's the attitude behind 'anything beyond getting there safely is the customer's problem'that I'm getting at.

 

[al78]

Ok, so let's hear your brilliant suggestion then. Driver only train, 12 cars and over 1000 people. How do you suggest the industry makes sure they all travel at a temperature they deem comfortable?!

It's PUBLIC transport. Impossible to please everyone.

Do trains have a climate control feature? If so, set it to around 20-21C which will be fine for the majority of people (that is standard room temperature). Those who are uncomfortably cold at that temperature will be uncomfortably cold at most indoor temperatures and ought to dress accordingly, and similarly for those who are too hot.

No you can't please everyone but if certain people lie on the extreme ends of the distribution, then there has to be some responsibility on their part to account for that.

 

[LowLevel]

That's what you get with driver only operation - enjoy.

 

[Flamingo]

What other 21st century industry would get away with saying 'as long as there is the basic function, anything about customers having a good experience doesn't matter?'

Then lets see you at the barricades when we're fighting to prevent the spread of DOO on the new IEP trains...

 

[jrh2254]

Walk up and down the carriages and find one that is a suitable temperature for yourself! Vary the temperature by putting your coat/jumper on or off!

 

[A-driver]

It's the attitude behind 'anything beyond getting there safely is the customer's problem'that I'm getting at.

The drivers role is not primarily customer focused thigh. We have enough to do when driving a train than worry about the heat in the carriages. Same with signallers. Speaking to the signaller on the radio is a big distraction. If they call you up to report something rather unnecessary like it's too hot (something we have no control over anyway) then I would certainly put in a complaint as I should only be contacted about essential operating information.

If you want a customer facing role onboard then you need to lobby your MP to get DOO removed.

 

[TUC]

Do trains have a climate control feature? If so, set it to around 20-21C which will be fine for the majority of people (that is standard room temperature). Those who are uncomfortably cold at that temperature will be uncomfortably cold at most indoor temperatures and ought to dress accordingly, and similarly for those who are too hot.

Even allowing for the age of some trains, I would have thought it should have been possible for most of them to have been fitted with some kind of thermostat/temperature sensitive device at some time in the past 20 years.

 

[A-driver]

Even allowing for the age of some trains, I would have thought it should have been possible for most of them to have been fitted with some kind of thermostat/temperature sensitive device at some time in the past 20 years.

They do have thermostats but many don't work properly. Maintanance budgets are being cut all over so things like creature comforts have no money spent on them.

Not justifying it, just telling you why this occurs so often.

 

[Howardh]

Do trains have a climate control feature? If so, set it to around 20-21C which will be fine for the majority of people (that is standard room temperature). Those who are uncomfortably cold at that temperature will be uncomfortably cold at most indoor temperatures and ought to dress accordingly, and similarly for those who are too hot.

That's OK in theory, but my experience of TPE trains is the air-con is on continuously, and there's only one seat (on the non-electrics) where you are out of the cold blast.
So think of 21c and then factor in wind-chill, and factor in people who are wet if it's been raining. It becomes a very unpleasant experience.
And as for dressing appropriately, one id dressed for the day out/work/evenings etc. You don't get dressed specifically because the train is going to be freezing cold.
I did get a response form TPE who explained passengers had felt it *too cold* and were tweaking the thermostats to a higher temp.
TPE does feel slightly better now, but find it strange that the heating bars + air-con are often both on at the same time!

 

[jrh2254]

On HSTs you can pull down the windows when its too hot, stand by the door and let the cool air in!

 

[A-driver]

On HSTs you can pull down the windows when its too hot, stand by the door and let the cool air in!

On 365s doing that is what causes the problems in the first place. Before the depot has locked out all the heating and when the weather is warmer people feel it getting warm and open windows. The cool air hits the thermostat which turns the heaters on fully. If you leave the windows shut the heaters will actually cool down.

 

[jrh2254]

On 365s doing that is what causes the problems in the first place. Before the depot has locked out all the heating and when the weather is warmer people feel it getting warm and open windows. The cool air hits the thermostat which turns the heaters on fully. If you leave the windows shut the heaters will actually cool down.

Thanks! Where is the thermostat on the HSTs?

 

[bramling]

What other 21st century industry would get away with saying 'as long as there is the basic function, anything about customers having a good experience doesn't matter?'

It's not about the industry, it's about what the driver can actually do about the situation - which unfortunately is generally minimal.

From a passenger's perspective, I have to say that generally the one factor which often causes most unpleasantness when travelling by train is actually the behaviour of some other passengers.

 

[bb21]

Please discuss DOO in the relevant threads. Any such discussion in this thread will be deleted without exception.

 

[upnorth71]

Ok, so let's hear your brilliant suggestion then. Driver only train, 12 cars and over 1000 people. How do you suggest the industry makes sure they all travel at a temperature they deem comfortable?!

It's PUBLIC transport. Impossible to please everyone.

In Japan, the commuter trains (and recently a few express types) have at least one designated carriage that has a low setting for aircon, and are labelled as such somewhere near the doors. These are especially popular among women. An example of meeting the needs of customers.

 

[Flamingo]

In Japan, the commuter trains (and recently a few express types) have at least one designated carriage that has a low setting for aircon, and are labelled as such somewhere near the doors. These are especially popular among women. An example of meeting the needs of customers.

In Japan they also have staff to push commuters on-board so they can close the doors. Also meeting the needs of customers?

 

[Jonfun]

In Japan, the commuter trains (and recently a few express types) have at least one designated carriage that has a low setting for aircon, and are labelled as such somewhere near the doors. These are especially popular among women. An example of meeting the needs of customers.

And then the inevitable complaints of "Well I didn't ASK to be reserved in the Antarctic coach..."

 

[Alteran Ancient]

Got a fantastic story via one of my colleagues.

He was aboard a 375 when the train had to stop and the traction current had to be shut down due to an emergency ahead - the passengers were kept informed in a very reasonable fashion over what was happening.

Some time whilst they were sitting there, the tannoy ping-ponged:

"This is the driver speaking. To the person who complained on Twitter about the Air con being turned off: Air con requires power. As the track current is turned off, this means we have no power. No power means no air conditioning."

You'd think common sense would be abundant in this world. Or rather, as the case appears to be, lack of common sense.