-
Our booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk (powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!
Train driver allowed to use colour corrective lenses?
- Thread starter Jevans3d
- Start date
- Status
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R
RailUK Forums
221129
Established Member
No. Most definitely not.
Qualcomm745
On Moderation
Question: with the ECML Getting the whole ETCS upgrade because of the Azumas. And i know normally a you cannot become a driver if your colourblind. Once the entire ecml Is upgraded couldn't you technically become a driver. If your red green colourblind as it would be in cab signalling. Same as HS2. As LU use ATO (Similar) and I know there's the odd rare colourblind person driving tubes. So wouldn't it be possible
No because diversion routes are not ETCS.
Qualcomm745
On Moderation
What about HS2. They won't be using diversionary routes
No, they will be using regular mainline for many miles....
Qualcomm745
On Moderation
Do you think anytime in the future colourblind people could drive a digital train
Qualcomm745
On Moderation
Any length. So... Not anytime soon I'm assuming
PupCuff
Member
For the benefit of the OP, the requirements for medical fitness of Train Drivers can be found in document RIS-3451-TOM on the RSSB website (Standards and Safety > Standards Catalogue):
For other workers involved in train movements the requirements (RIS-3452-TOM) are less stringent but the presumption still errs on the side of 'no' unless there is some form of assessment to ensure they will not need to differentiate colour:
My personal opinion is that a one-size-fits-all approach is rarely the right way forward, but as they say, "them's the rules", unfortunately.
I would like to think as trains become less bound by lineside signals and suchlike colour vision requirements will become less stringent, however that decision would only ever be made when the whole in-cab signalling concept became 'a thing' which in reality, aside from a few niche applications, is likely to be decades. If ever.
For other workers involved in train movements the requirements (RIS-3452-TOM) are less stringent but the presumption still errs on the side of 'no' unless there is some form of assessment to ensure they will not need to differentiate colour:
My personal opinion is that a one-size-fits-all approach is rarely the right way forward, but as they say, "them's the rules", unfortunately.
I would like to think as trains become less bound by lineside signals and suchlike colour vision requirements will become less stringent, however that decision would only ever be made when the whole in-cab signalling concept became 'a thing' which in reality, aside from a few niche applications, is likely to be decades. If ever.
Flange Squeal
Established Member
- Joined
- 17 Jul 2012
- Messages
- 1,259
Given that the hearing test as part of train driver (new recruits and periodical for qualified) medicals require you to hear sounds far quieter than anything you ever need to in the actual role, I wouldn’t hold your breath that changes to signalling over time will see the eyesight standards relaxed with any sudden rush!
Whilst it may seem unfair for those who would see driving trains as their ideal career, there have to be jobs where the rights of those with specific disabilities are trumped by the health and safety risks that they present to others.
Qualcomm745
On Moderation
I know you've probably heard this but like I can see the signals fine like red green yellow and double yellow but I cannot see a number which annoys me. The introduction of ATO and ETCS in the future made it seem possible as lineside coloured signals were no longer required on the railway. Of anyone has a pic of a signal that a colourblind person may struggle to see please show it
Rockhopper
Member
- Joined
- 29 Apr 2019
- Messages
- 736
Given that many lines are still using semaphore signals I doubt that colour light signals will be replaced in the life time of anyone on this forum! Don't forget about diversionary routes as well.
whoosh
Established Member
- Joined
- 3 Sep 2008
- Messages
- 1,369
You might still need to shunt trains in sidings with red and green handsignals from the shunter, even after ETCS.
Qualcomm745
On Moderation
Yeah I guess so. I was hoping something like merseyrail MML or BML Has etcs in the future as that would of given me a chance. Has anyone got a pic of a signal that I may struggle with as I'm colourblind
Imagine this on a sunny day with sunlight impeding it.
In the mean time if your situation is possible go for London Underground.
Colour blind man permitted to drive London Underground Tube trains - We are Colorblind
Alex Bulley, 26, suffers from color blindness and is now believed to be the first in the world with the condition to be allowed to drive a subway train. The driver has been permitted to work on the London Underground Jubilee line because it no longer has red and green signals and uses automatic...
Qualcomm745
On Moderation
I mean from the pic it's a double yellow signal. But without the sunlight I wouldn't know what it would look like. The only reason I wouldn't go for the underground is because the lines that use it are continuously underground and I'd rather drive something like an S8 on say the met line or district line
can you see the numbers with the corrective lenses you mentioned?
Sometimes I find the railway very behind the times and I am surprised there haven't been legal challenges as they perclude a number of people who "with reasonable adjustments" could meet the standards.
Colour blind people can drive cars and they have the same issues with traffic lights so sometimes I think you have to see what adjustments can be made. People with poor eyesight are allowed to wear corrective lenses so I don't see how this different?
Sorry as a disclaimer to OP it is unlikely this will be changed, laser eye surgery still isn't accepted at a number of TOCs but pilots can have it??
Sometimes I find the railway very behind the times and I am surprised there haven't been legal challenges as they perclude a number of people who "with reasonable adjustments" could meet the standards.
Colour blind people can drive cars and they have the same issues with traffic lights so sometimes I think you have to see what adjustments can be made. People with poor eyesight are allowed to wear corrective lenses so I don't see how this different?
Sorry as a disclaimer to OP it is unlikely this will be changed, laser eye surgery still isn't accepted at a number of TOCs but pilots can have it??
Qualcomm745
On Moderation
I've been reading on here that lenses are not permitted on the railway which does not make sense as people with contact lenses and glasses can wear and colourblind people can't wear them which I find unfair. I've never tryed glasses for colourblindness and I hope to
Rockhopper
Member
- Joined
- 29 Apr 2019
- Messages
- 736
Pilots etc can have it but there is a convoluted re-certification process to go through before they are allowed to fly again with no guarantee that they will be passed fit.
Road vehicles present a totally different set of circumstances. Drivers of trains approach signals at speeds where their first view of them can't determine the aspect by position which is what colur impaired motorists have to do. Indeed, traffic lights sometimes even have the word 'stop' on the red light. A train travels at at speed where the stopping distance can be much longer than first sight, - and that is without heavy rain, snow or even fog. Then there's the consequences of not taking appropriate action in time, which can involve the safety of hundreds of passengers on the train that doesn't stop alone, plus persons on/in whatever it might collide with.
Much of pilots' visual input is of things within the cockpit which can be within the range of corrected eyesight, plus a large part of flying activities is now automated on commercial flying.
Qualcomm745
On Moderation
Yes. I find it annoying although that Alex bulley person challenges TFL and got the tube driver job and still no one ever thought of challenging the RSSB. Which I think if you presented sufficient evidence they may let you through. But I wouldn't think they'd do that.
But is it a reasonable adjustment ? Someone has to decide that and currently nobody has. The railway is very risk averse and rightly so. There is a significant risk to life and for anything to change there needs to be far more than a legal challenge or 'reasonable adjustments'
You also have to consider everything else that comes along with an employee having glasses. eg. The TOC must provide a second, spare set of glasses. The TOC needs to swallow that cost.
Glasses are different to corrective lenses. They meet different standards and have a proven track record in correcting vision.
Laser eye surgery is accepted for Drivers. There are additional standards TOCs must adhere to when accepting someone having the procedure. If you look at the history behind it you can understand why it has taken this long for it to be accepted. The choice is then down to both the employee to accept the consequences and down to the TOC to accept the cost.
A train is not a plane and its not a car either. There are different rules for pilot certification just as much as there are different rules for getting a Driving Licence. It is very naive to believe they should have the same rules.
As far as I’m aware, the TOC/FOC isn’t required to foot the cost of a second pair of glasses. Maybe some do, but mine certainly doesn’t. I tried my hand at getting sunglasses paid for and managed to get a voucher for some of the cost of glasses and sunglasses, plus an eye test, but I got the impression that’s as much as I’ll get (I don’t think it’s unreasonable since I can’t wear the issued sunglasses and will require polarised lenses
).In terms of moving with the times, I think it’s a good point. For example new entrant Firefighters weren’t allowed to wear corrective lenses. It took several years, but that’s no longer the case now, as they supply lenses to the BA sets now. As long as uncorrected and corrected vision meets a certain min standard, it’s acceptable, much like the railway.
Qualcomm745
On Moderation
So I what I really don't get (and this sounds like a contradiction) but why do colourblind people still apply to become train drivers if it's not possible. And so it is possible to become a driver with corrected colour glasses but has to meet a certain standard.
How do you know they do?
If they do however, it’s probably because they’re not aware of the eyesight requirements probably. It’s hardly clearly documented to say the least, and unless you really look in to it and ask the questions at places like this, it’s easy to just assume you’re okay.
As you probably know too, there are differing levels of colour blindness and not everybody is that severe. Sometimes you don’t even know until you do the test at the medical.
Qualcomm745
On Moderation
So if your mildly colourblind are the glasses not acceptable.
- Status