Train driver in uniform prevented from going through ticket barriers

[transmanche]

Must have annoyed the driver but there are all sorts of loons out there and what is to stop someone getting an old uniform and not paying for travel?

Isn't that exactly what Frank Abagnale did back in the 1960s? Blagging hundreds of free flights to dozens of countries simply by wearing a PanAm uniform.

 

[craigybagel]

No, an ID is not a ticket, that's what the travel passes, boxes and PRIV cards (and goodwill) are for.

However, the ID should get an employee access if they are working there.

[PEDANT MODE] At some TOCs, including my own, our Company ID is also our travel pass. [/PEDANT MODE]
We're also issued with the same special gate tickets the barrier staff use to open barriers so that the above incident should never be an issue, although they never last for very long......

 

[najaB]

It's hard to recover what you don't know the person has.

Oh, I totally understand that one.

What *does* tend to go back are...

To be honest, it was the staff passes/ID cards that set off alarm bells in my mind. I'm relieved that they try to get those back.

 

[jkdd77]

It raises an interesting hypothetical question (at least to me!)

Byelaw 9(2) makes it an offence to enter or leave a station without passing through ticket barriers in the correct manner, but byelaw 24(6) specifically states that byelaw 9 does not apply to an authorised person acting in the course of their duties.

Therefore, as a last resort, could a driver or similar member of on-duty railway staff lawfully climb over or 'tailgate' through the barriers under the provision of this exemption? They presumably would not be trespassing if acting in the course of, and for the purpose of, their official duties on the railway.

 

[gimmea50anyday]

If he/she is on duty they should hold a valid diagram and an authority to travel card which would allow them entry through a gate and a flash of that and your staff ID would get you through.

You are NOT required to produce a docket/diagram, as you may be on an undiagrammed move. conteol should be backing you up in this instance if required but as long as you have a duty pass there shouldnt be an issue

 

[A-driver]

You are NOT required to produce a docket/diagram, as you may be on an undiagrammed move. conteol should be backing you up in this instance if required but as long as you have a duty pass there shouldnt be an issue

Depends. Peterborough GN drivers recently had a big issue on East Coast when a guard penalty fared one of them for passing on his booked train to London. He produced his ID and diagram (and was in uniform) but no FCC drivers had been issued the purple PTAT card. As far as he knew, he was fine to travel as, if nothing else, it was on his diagram. After much discussion between FCC and EC it came out that the guard was technically correct (although a bit of a jobsworth) and as a temp measure all Peterborough diagrams were amended and extended so that any travelling to London was on FCC trains not EC. The reciprocal travel with EC and FCC/GTR is only for travel to and from work mon-fri, it does not cover you for travel when at work apparently.

It now means that all PB drivers have PTAT cards and if they ever need to travel on an EC train they MUST have a diagram faxed to them. So even if it's an undiagrammed move (such as getting the PB spare man to sit up at kings x) the foreman must fax through a diagram to the driver listing the PASS train on it so that they can travel. Even if all that diagram has on it is PASS.

Stupid situation but there you go!

 

[Harlan Cage]

In a related issue i was prevented from putting my valid rail ticket in the exit gates at King Cross by a Ticket Inspector last year . He made passengers queue up and he and inspected every ticket, causing delay. I asked him ,why if the the gates were working, where they not being used to which he replied "There are lots of fake tickets"! Ticket gates, whilst an irritation at times are remarkably effective at detecting invalid tickets.

I think in both the case of the train drivers and my expereience most likely this is jobsworths in action!

HC

 

[Flamingo]

Staff may (due to disciplinary action) have their off-duty leisure travel facilities removed or suspended. They will still have staff ID and travel required by work permitted, but no travel passes.

 

[gimmea50anyday]

Peterborough GN drivers recently had a big issue on East Coast when a guard penalty fared one of them for passing on his booked train to London.

I think I can name the guard concerned, as there is one who has a reputation along the entire east coast mainline (there are others but no one beats the reputation of the one!) He has been known for targeting staff over other passengers. Wether on or off duty if you are not booked, he will charge you, if you are booked, he will find a way to charge you. If you are on boxes, he will find some obscure rule precluding boxes on his train. Unfortunately the tw@t has boxes and so can travel on any train, but woe betide you if you have the decency to ask him for a lift! He does have a tendancy to *ahem* forget.... to fill in a box when used tho.....

He is about to retire. I wont be going to his retirement bash. I have had run ins with him myself!

I believe in looking after each other, as you never know when you may need help, so regardless i welcome ALL rail staff on my trains wether on or off duty, in uniform or not, and i always introduce myself to the traincrew not just out of courtesy, but also so that they know i am on the train if i am needed.

 

[Deerfold]

In a related issue i was prevented from putting my valid rail ticket in the exit gates at King Cross by a Ticket Inspector last year . He made passengers queue up and he and inspected every ticket, causing delay. I asked him ,why if the the gates were working, where they not being used to which he replied "There are lots of fake tickets"! Ticket gates, whilst an irritation at times are remarkably effective at detecting invalid tickets.

There are numerous forgeries around which work gates just fine. Do you have some details of how effective the gates are at detecting these tickets?

I think in both the case of the train drivers and my expereience most likely this is jobsworths in action!
HC

Your experience of what? Detecting fake tickets?

 

[swj99]

......

 

[notadriver]

I think I can name the guard concerned, as there is one who has a reputation along the entire east coast mainline (there are others but no one beats the reputation of the one!) He has been known for targeting staff over other passengers. Wether on or off duty if you are not booked, he will charge you, if you are booked, he will find a way to charge you. If you are on boxes, he will find some obscure rule precluding boxes on his train. Unfortunately the tw@t has boxes and so can travel on any train, but woe betide you if you have the decency to ask him for a lift! He does have a tendancy to *ahem* forget.... to fill in a box when used tho.....

He is about to retire. I wont be going to his retirement bash. I have had run ins with him myself!

I believe in looking after each other, as you never know when you may need help, so regardless i welcome ALL rail staff on my trains wether on or off duty, in uniform or not, and i always introduce myself to the traincrew not just out of courtesy, but also so that they know i am on the train if i am needed.

I believe there are a small minority of staff who hate or are jealous of drivers.

 

[Flamingo]

I believe there are a small minority of staff who hateor are jealous of drivers.

Only because they've met a driver once ...

 

[tony6499]

I think I can name the guard concerned, as there is one who has a reputation along the entire east coast mainline (there are others but no one beats the reputation of the one!) He has been known for targeting staff over other passengers. Wether on or off duty if you are not booked, he will charge you, if you are booked, he will find a way to charge you. If you are on boxes, he will find some obscure rule precluding boxes on his train. Unfortunately the tw@t has boxes and so can travel on any train, but woe betide you if you have the decency to ask him for a lift! He does have a tendancy to *ahem* forget.... to fill in a box when used tho.....

He is about to retire. I wont be going to his retirement bash. I have had run ins with him myself!

I believe in looking after each other, as you never know when you may need help, so regardless i welcome ALL rail staff on my trains wether on or off duty, in uniform or not, and i always introduce myself to the traincrew not just out of courtesy, but also so that they know i am on the train if i am needed.

If he is making rules up as he goes along it is down to whoever manages him for not having a word and stopping it

 

[spacehopper]

I believe in looking after each other, as you never know when you may need help, so regardless i welcome ALL rail staff on my trains wether on or off duty, in uniform or not, and i always introduce myself to the traincrew not just out of courtesy, but also so that they know i am on the train if i am needed.

^^^

Even when the legend is not on train he will sit by the gateline and challenge anyone using the side gates- he's that desperate.

It's all grades as well, no matter the uniform, no matter the TOC, no matter the depot he is out to get anyone and everyone....

 

[185]

A colleague on duty in full uniform was refused exit from a station as he could not produce a valid ticket. Any thoughts on what he/she should do next ?

Happened with G4S at Man Picc when Arriva took over Northern Spirit. A certain conductor went over to P14 to work the :07 Transpennine Liverpool. Got to the bridge, got told 'you are a bus driver, don't think you can walk through here without a ticket' to which conductor decided - ok, don't want to work the Liverpool anyway, I'll just take a seat. And he did. The :07 sat there for 20+ mins until the guards manager came down :P

 

[Harlan Cage]

There are numerous forgeries around which work gates just fine. Do you have some details of how effective the gates are at detecting these tickets?



Your experience of what? Detecting fake tickets?

Tickets with magnetic strips where the data is held have been around many years. Whilst it is possible to fake a ticket it requires at lot of effort and the means to do it but it does occur. The irony of my experience was the guy visually checked my ticket and then he opened the gate without need for me to put my ticket through the gate! Not quite sure what he achieved as the gate was fully functional!

I would hazard a guess that the amount of fake tickets with magnetic strips is low as if it was a big issue the train operators would be conducting more spot checks than they currently do.

HC

 

[EWS 58038]

I have been denied access to the platform whilst on duty. After explaining that if he wouldn't step aside he could explain to 300 passengers why the train wasn't moving he called his supervisor... and guess what... Police came to the scene.

By that time I had enough of it, and went home.
Guess what happened to the train....

 

[hounddog]

I have been denied access to the platform whilst on duty. After explaining that if he wouldn't step aside he could explain to 300 passengers why the train wasn't moving he called his supervisor... and guess what... Police came to the scene.

By that time I had enough of it, and went home.
Guess what happened to the train....

Great customer service on your part. Really professional. Who explained to the 300+ passengers that while the initial delay wasn't your fault the rest of it was?

 

[Quakkerillo]

I have been denied access to the platform whilst on duty. After explaining that if he wouldn't step aside he could explain to 300 passengers why the train wasn't moving he called his supervisor... and guess what... Police came to the scene.

By that time I had enough of it, and went home.
Guess what happened to the train....

NS Hispeed train manager. So the station would've been Amsterdam, Breda, or Brussels South. Neither of all stations have closed ticket barriers.
Also, going home should've just gotten you sanctioned.

I feel like you're missing out some information on this story here.

 

[Antman]

I have been denied access to the platform whilst on duty. After explaining that if he wouldn't step aside he could explain to 300 passengers why the train wasn't moving he called his supervisor... and guess what... Police came to the scene.

By that time I had enough of it, and went home.
Guess what happened to the train....

Did your boss have anything to say about you deciding to go home?

 

[notadriver]

Did your boss have anything to say about you deciding to go home?

Gateline jobsworths!!!!

 

[Antman]

Gateline jobsworths!!!!

Well of course anybody trying to enforce any rules and regulations these days tends to get branded a jobsworth

 

[NSEFAN]

I suppose that if the altercation goes on for long enough, the driver could run out of hours and have no choice but to not drive the train. I am surprised that these sorts of things happen, especially if both the barrier staff and the driver are from the same TOC!

 

[Antman]

I suppose that if the altercation goes on for long enough, the driver could run out of hours and have no choice but to not drive the train. I am surprised that these sorts of things happen, especially if both the barrier staff and the driver are from the same TOC!

Yes it does rather sound like a drinking session in a brewery type incident and one that the media would have a field day over??????

 

[Wolfie]

Happened with G4S at Man Picc when Arriva took over Northern Spirit. A certain conductor went over to P14 to work the :07 Transpennine Liverpool. Got to the bridge, got told 'you are a bus driver, don't think you can walk through here without a ticket' to which conductor decided - ok, don't want to work the Liverpool anyway, I'll just take a seat. And he did. The :07 sat there for 20+ mins until the guards manager came down :P

I trust the G4S folk in question were dispatched themselves forthwith with a don't bother coming back message....

Gateline jobsworths!!!!

Wouldn't it be funny should the same gateline assistant pop up on that staff member's train though... methinks they would be offloaded to wait for the next one (in the spirit of don't get mad get even)!

 

[gimmea50anyday]

^^^

Even when the legend is not on train he will sit by the gateline and challenge anyone using the side gates- he's that desperate.

It's all grades as well, no matter the uniform, no matter the TOC, no matter the depot he is out to get anyone and everyone....

He isnt authorised to gate-line. No train crew are, although if they are invited to then thats different.

I boarded an EC at durham once. Coach C of a 225 set. DVT at the front. The train had barely been despatched and in the length of time it took coach C to clear the station and cross the viaduct, he was standing next to me bouncing his ticket machine in his hand. .

Although i was in uniform, I wasnt on duty and needed a ticket, fair enough. He had clearly clocked me on the platform and made a beeline straight for me, deliberately ignoring other passengers who had boarded and targeted me as that was the only way he could have gotten through the train in that length of time.

 

[Wolfie]

He isnt authorised to gate-line. No train crew are, although if they are invited to then thats different.

I boarded an EC at durham once. Coach C of a 225 set. DVT at the front. The train had barely been despatched and in the length of time it took coach C to clear the station and cross the viaduct, he was standing next to me bouncing his ticket machine in his hand. .

Although i was in uniform, I wasnt on duty and needed a ticket, fair enough. He had clearly clocked me on the platform and made a beeline straight for me, deliberately ignoring other passengers who had boarded and targeted me as that was the only way he could have gotten through the train in that length of time.

One assumes that his colleagues and 'friends', if they do not already do so, will go out of their way to reciprocate once he has retired...

 

[Stigy]

Staff should have their logic/smart card passes on them to operate the gates themselves, if they don't, they should at least have staff ID to show. After all, bear in mind ALL staff on duty (especially train drivers!) will be going in to non-public areas at some point during their shift so will need mandatory ID as per DfT requirements. It's often the same with NWR staff in hi-vis jackets on trains in that they are often not challenged as staff assume they are in possession of the relevant paperwork allowing them to travel.

 

[swj99]

If this kind of insanity is allowed to continue, with jobsworths giving hassle to other jobsworths, the pc brigade attempting to exert control over the uncontrollable, and the nanny state trying to wrap everyone and everything in cotton wool so no-one gets hurt, offended or has their data stolen or disclosed when it shouldn't be, society will eventually implode.
But apart from that, things are going great.