Train Evacuation: how to evacuate wheelchair users?

[OneOffDave]

Following on from a number of threads about trains being evacuated had me pondering about a couple of things to do with evacuating wheelchair users. For clarity, none of this is intended as a 'dig' at anyone.

When practicing this do the TOCs/emergency services use 'genuine*' wheelchair users or do they use TOC/emergency service/other able bodied volunteers to role-play wheelchair users? Just wondering how realistic the training/exercising was. In other exercises I've been involved with, when things get a bit tricky, the person role-playing a wheelchair user has got up and walked to resolve the tricky bit.

The other thing I've not been able to find out from TOCs is what they plan to do with a wheelchair user once they've been moved to a place of safety. When I asked SWR, they said the wheelchair user would be taken off in a stretcher on a spinal board and then left in the care of the ambulance service until the chair could be offloaded from the train once it's moved to a suitable location. Having worked with the ambulance service a lot, I can't see them committing a double crewed ambulance to look after an otherwise unharmed wheelchair user for as long as that takes.

I know a number of wheelchair users (and myself) who've worked with the blue lights in making the training more realistic and providing useful positive feedback in other areas of emergency response so wondered if it was similar in the rail world.

*I don't like using that term as it implies there are 'fake' wheelchair users around but I meant people who use a chair regularly in their everyday lives as opposed to someone just sitting in a chair during training or an exercise to role play a wheelchair user

 

[SPADTrap]

Badly if you work at Hull Trains, their up Hull failed yesterday around 1430 and by 2000 there was still a wheelchair passenger on board.

 

[thaitransit]

This is something I have wondered too especially when I travel with a disabled friend who needs ramps to access the train normally. Luckily it hasn't happened yet but he wouldn't be able to climb down to the tracks or walk out to a level crossing which could be miles away to await bus transport for obvious reasons.

I often assumed the local fire brigade would come and help lift him out probably taking 4 people to do it. Then transport him out on a stretcher or other vehicle they came in to where the buses are. But the railways dont mention how this is handled at all. Especially when the disruption could last for days eg washed out tracks etc.

 

[Robertj21a]

I would have thought it's quite difficult to come up with any standard practice other than the obvious - take care, safe at all times etc etc. Most others are likely to be significantly affected by the individual circumstances (of the person and the 'incident').

 

[theageofthetra]

I would lile to know what happens to electric chairs- they can't be lifted off so how does the owner get it back?

 

[GB]

I would lile to know what happens to electric chairs- they can't be lifted off so how does the owner get it back?

Why can't they be lifted?

 

[AlterEgo]

Why can't they be lifted?

Some of the ones allowed into trains weigh up to 300kg.

 

[Clip]

I would lile to know what happens to electric chairs- they can't be lifted off so how does the owner get it back?

Lost property department??

 

[Jonfun]

Then they'd have to stay there until the train was next in a suitable platform to remove it via a (presumably specially high-rated?) ramp.

Removing wheelchairs in the event of an evacuation would be down to the fire service, so presumably they must have special lifting equipment for heavy, unusually shaped items?

 

[nickswift99]

Weight. Up to 160kg without a user in them. HSE guidance suggests the maximum weight that can safely be lifted by a male is 20kg without lifting aids.

 

[OneOffDave]

I would have thought it's quite difficult to come up with any standard practice other than the obvious - take care, safe at all times etc etc. Most others are likely to be significantly affected by the individual circumstances (of the person and the 'incident').

Each case will be slightly different but there are a number of common features, especially if you break it into phases. You've got getting off the train, getting from the train to the place of safety, waiting for a wheelchair or other onward transport arrangements. I suspect if you are going to be lifted down that'll be on a stretcher type device which will mean being properly packaged. This is quite an unpleasant process particularly when they start moving you as you've go no facility to move or save yourself so are totally dependent on those doing the carrying. The carry out will be interesting too as unless there's some kind of vehicle or trolley handy you'll have to be carried all the way which may be pretty nausea inducing (always fun when lying on your back). Then once at the place of safety presumably they'll unpackage you and stick you on a chair to await your wheelchair. Hopefully any bag you've got will come out with you. Looking at how the evac following the Wimbledon derailment went, they might have to pass you over a 6ft-odd fence which would be more than a little 'entertaining'.

This is all well and good in an emergency as where life is at risk this processes are ok. In the case of just getting off a failed train, just being packaged to be lowered off puts a lot of disabled people at risk. I know if all the ambulatory people get to come off with their bags but mine has to be left for the TOC to sort out at a later date I'd be more than a bit miffed. The same with the chair. Without it I'm totally stranded. From information from SWT as it was then, in the case of a slow evac like the Wimbledon incident, the wheelchair user would be taken off by the emergency services and the chair recovered once the train has been returned to a depot which could be a couple of days later.

 

[OneOffDave]

I suspect anything bigger than a 'standard' manual chair will take a bit of planning and possibly some temporary staging being built to get it off. It was really unclear what would happen to the lighter chairs from the correspondence I've had.

The other issue is keeping warm. As a wheelchair user as you are just sat down, you get a lot colder a lots faster than if you are standing around. In a train with no power in the winter it's going to be really unpleasant after about an hour or so.

 

[LowLevel]

Basically we are told unless it's a case of immediate danger to life the wheelchair user should remain in the safe refuge on board and the fire service will assist in their removal.

In the case of immediate danger to life the train guard should commandeer assistance from the most able to assist (as per an aircraft) and lift the person down from the train. We practiced this with the heaviest person available and between two of us as a dual lift were able to achieve it. I would say o am well above average in terms of physical capability though. It is however a very risky procedure to undertake and thus should only be undertaken by the train crew in case of immediate risk to life.

 

[OneOffDave]

Basically we are told unless it's a case of immediate danger to life the wheelchair user should remain in the safe refuge on board and the fire service will assist in their removal.

In the case of immediate danger to life the train guard should commandeer assistance from the most able to assist (as per an aircraft) and lift the person down from the train. We practiced this with the heaviest person available and between two of us as a dual lift were able to achieve it. I would say o am well above average in terms of physical capability though. It is however a very risky procedure to undertake and thus should only be undertaken by the train crew in case of immediate risk to life.

That makes perfect sense to wait when there's no immediate risk to life. Are the fire service routinely called if all the passengers need to be detrained from a failed train? Thinking of the recent train failures that have been discussed on the forum like the one with the air issue rather than emergencies

 

[swt_passenger]

Are the fire service routinely called if all the passengers need to be detrained from a failed train?

Yes they are, you'll also see it mentioned in all the relevant RAIB reports. Even when they have used a bridge to an adjacent train it has involved fire and rescue assistance.

 

[Tube driver]

On LUL we have carry sheets.

Not very dignified but in an emergency, they'll be used.

On tube stock, you'll be evacuated via the front 'M' door and this is far too narrow to get an unfolded chair through let alone through the intercar doors. It is possible to evacuate via a side passenger door where conditions allow but the wheelchair user will still have to helped down (is quite high, you know!) and carried to the nearest platform.

Not sure what would happen with those electric wheelchairs. Obviously, folding wheelchairs are no problem and the user will be reunited with it at the platform but those electric ones are very heavy and it would be a mission to manhandle one of them off the train and carry it along the ballast to the platform. Guess they'd have to wait...

 

[OneOffDave]

A large number of lightweight chairs don't fold either as a rigid chair can be lighter and more efficient. Mine only weighs 10kg and I can pick it up one handed but it doesn't fold, just the wheels come off to get it in the car.

I'd much prefer a carry sheet to being boarded and stuck in a basket stretcher. I've been in both previously and it felt a lot more comfortable in the carry sheet

 

[Shaw S Hunter]

Yes they are, you'll also see it mentioned in all the relevant RAIB reports. Even when they have used a bridge to an adjacent train it has involved fire and rescue assistance.

Not necessarily. A few years back a Northern DMU got stranded on the WCML all wrapped in the overheads which had been brought down by snow/ice/wind. Passengers were eventually evacuated to a Virgin Voyager which was able to pull up alongside. The on-boards ramps and rope from the emergency equipment cupboards were used to create bridges between the two trains. No fire service involvement.

 

[swt_passenger]

Not necessarily. A few years back a Northern DMU got stranded on the WCML all wrapped in the overheads which had been brought down by snow/ice/wind. Passengers were eventually evacuated to a Virgin Voyager which was able to pull up alongside. The on-boards ramps and rope from the emergency equipment cupboards were used to create bridges between the two trains. No fire service involvement.

I wasn’t aiming to mean it was obligatory, just that it was likely even in such a relatively safe situation.

 

[Shaw S Hunter]

I wasn’t aiming to mean it was obligatory, just that it was likely even in such a relatively safe situation.

I suspect that in practice if TOC controllers believe traincrew can safely manage the situation themselves they will let them get on with it. Each instance should be treated individually, no need for rigid black and white rules beyond ensuring safety. A lot will depend on the ability of the local fire service to attend within a reasonable period of time. And if a life threatening situation exists then there's no question of waiting for outside assistance.

 

[philthetube]

On LUL we have carry sheets.

Not very dignified but in an emergency, they'll be used.

On tube stock, you'll be evacuated via the front 'M' door and this is far too narrow to get an unfolded chair through let alone through the intercar doors. It is possible to evacuate via a side passenger door where conditions allow but the wheelchair user will still have to helped down (is quite high, you know!) and carried to the nearest platform.

Not sure what would happen with those electric wheelchairs. Obviously, folding wheelchairs are no problem and the user will be reunited with it at the platform but those electric ones are very heavy and it would be a mission to manhandle one of them off the train and carry it along the ballast to the platform. Guess they'd have to wait...

You would try to leave the person on the train though, while there is obviously a need to evacuate a packed train there is often no reason why a few individuals cannot be left on board and looked after, far safer than getting out the carry sheets etc. The disabled person would have a say in what happened as well.

 

[Supercoss]

Cross transfer ramps of various designs exist
These can be used on any stock even LHCS or HST
Wide enough for wheelchair
Can also be half deployed in ‘L’ shape where narrow doors prevent full width use
Sliding door on HST powercar useful for this
Wheelchair passenger carried across where necessary chair following later

 

[Highlandspring]

The one time this has become an issue with a train evacuation I’ve dealt with, Scottish Fire & Rescue attended and built a scaffolding plaform next to the train then rigged a winch above it to lift the passenger off the unit. Once they were off the train they carried the passenger along the track to the access point. It took around an hour and a half all in once they’d arrived on site.

 

[jon0844]

There was a controlled evacuation of a motorised scooter yesterday near Sandy wasn't there? I don't think it took that long, but I am not sure how it was done as I believe people had to walk up the line rather than use a bridge as shown above.

 

[LowLevel]

The fire service will assist as required. As I've mentioned however in the majority of cases it is safest for the wheelchair user to remain on board the train. In a previous life I've been a 'buddy' for a person confined to a chair and moving them out of it was no simple matter.

Our training as guards extends to selecting a suitable person to assist and then physically lifting the person down to the ballast and reuniting them with their chair if possible. In this case the literal description was linking arms behind their back and beneath their buttocks to provide a seated arrangement and then squatting to move them to ground level.

As I mentioned before this produces significant risk to the person being moved and also the people undertaking the move and thus is to be avoided except in the most serious of circumstances, nonetheless we are trained to do it if really necessary.

 

[tsr]

There was a controlled evacuation of a motorised scooter yesterday near Sandy wasn't there? I don't think it took that long, but I am not sure how it was done as I believe people had to walk up the line rather than use a bridge as shown above.

The method of working was to ensure the welfare of the passenger until such time as the fitters and other staff could get the train to limp into a platform.

 

[theageofthetra]

It's still ridiculous that as a DOO driver we often have no idea if a wheelchair or electric buggy is on board. Hopefully this new app may make it easier for us to know via a call to control or the signaller.

 

[OneOffDave]

I can see that in a lot of circumstances it might be safest to remain on the train but are there welfare measure in place to avoid things like hypothermia etc? 2-3 hours sat in a train without power in the winter is going to get a bit cold. I assume there's emergency lighting too though I know not many building emergency lighting systems have more that an hour or two. I'm just trying to think how I can be best prepared to minimise the impact to myself should this happen. I'm not really worried about accidents, more the run of the mill train disabling mechanical/electrical failures

 

[OneOffDave]

It's still ridiculous that as a DOO driver we often have no idea if a wheelchair or electric buggy is on board. Hopefully this new app may make it easier for us to know via a call to control or the signaller.

Joining up those dots would be really useful for all concerned. Hopefully the user testing of the app will have tested this out

 

[ComUtoR]

Hopefully this new app may make it easier for us to know via a call to control or the signaller.

I hope this never happens.

FYI they have already done something similar and control have contacted the Driver about assistance.