Train Evacuation: how to evacuate wheelchair users?

[thaitransit]

This is something of great concern for me as I have a disabled friend who sometimes goes on long distance trains with me but he is not only in a wheelchair but he is a very big person in general. So far we have never had to be evacuated off the train mid route. But until this topic I had not considered it.

However some of the routes we have travelled on cross extremely remote areas often at night. Eg The Inlander Townsville to Mount Isa. There are sections of this route where its over 500 km away from any major centres. Often there are no roads anywhere near of the line. In fact when we rode it there was a 13 hour express run without any station stops at all. The entire section was without mobile network coverage.

About a year before we travelled on this train there was an incident where a train derailed after heavy rain and it took 72 hours just to rescue the train drivers from the locomotive they couldn't even land a helicopter within miles of the accident site due to flooding and boggy ground. The train wasn't removed for 6 weeks! Lucky it was only a cargo train. If it was the passenger train I would like to have known they would have got passengers off it especially any disabled people on board.

I don't know if anything similar has occurred in the UK where just getting to derailed train is a massive undertaking. But it does make me wonder especially with disabled people.

Leaving them on the train in a similar situation to above isn't an option. I could only assume that the passengers would have to be winched out by helicopter including the disabled passengers then transfered to air ambulance if needed at another airport to transport them to a major hospital 700km plus away for urgent care. Its not something I would ever want to deal with.

 

[philthetube]

I can see that in a lot of circumstances it might be safest to remain on the train but are there welfare measure in place to avoid things like hypothermia etc? 2-3 hours sat in a train without power in the winter is going to get a bit cold. I assume there's emergency lighting too though I know not many building emergency lighting systems have more that an hour or two. I'm just trying to think how I can be best prepared to minimise the impact to myself should this happen. I'm not really worried about accidents, more the run of the mill train disabling mechanical/electrical failures

All these factors are going to be taken into consideration before decisions are made, I dont feel you have to worry, help for things lie hypothermia will be sorted, fire and ambulance crese sill be called if needed.

 

[OneOffDave]

All these factors are going to be taken into consideration before decisions are made, I dont feel you have to worry, help for things lie hypothermia will be sorted, fire and ambulance crese sill be called if needed.

Having worked in emergency planning for over 10 years and responded to a reasonable number of incidents and been involved in a large number of exercises I'm not quite as confident as you are!

 

[jon0844]

It's always better to keep people on a train, but once you have taken the decision to get people off, either stepping over a bridge to another train or along the line, you can't really leave some people behind. They may of course be safe, but that's not the point.

 

[theageofthetra]

It's worth pointing out that the maximum weight permissible for our loading ramps is 300kg. I bet there are quite a few buggys+ occupants+shopping etc that exceed this.

 

[Belperpete]

This is something of great concern for me as I have a disabled friend who sometimes goes on long distance trains with me but he is not only in a wheelchair but he is a very big person in general. So far we have never had to be evacuated off the train mid route. But until this topic I had not considered it. However some of the routes we have travelled on cross extremely remote areas often at night. Eg The Inlander Townsville to Mount Isa. There are sections of this route where its over 500 km away from any major centres. Often there are no roads anywhere near of the line. In fact when we rode it there was a 13 hour express run without any station stops at all. The entire section was without mobile network coverage.

Yes, there is a risk, but it is minimal, and certainly no worse than travelling by road.

I was travelling on one of the Sunday bus services through the Peak District some years ago. There had been heavy snow, and the road had only that day been re-opened, but was still quite treacherous. In the middle of nowhere a car skidded and hit us a glancing head-on, fortunately at very slow speed so no significant damage done. However, when our driver attempted to restart the engine, nothing happened, we were stuck there out on the top of the moors. Fortunately, we were within mobile range, and the driver was able to summon assistance, but it took over an hour to arrive. If we had not been in mobile range, I hate to think how long it might have been before anyone had realised something was wrong. At least if a train fails to turn up, there is a signaller who will raise the alarm fairly quickly.

Everything that you do carries a risk, even just crossing the road. If you start over-worrying about the risks, then you would never leave home (mind you, even then, the home and particularly the kitchen is a risky place). Just take sensible precautions.

 

[hooverboy]

I would lile to know what happens to electric chairs- they can't be lifted off so how does the owner get it back?

people usually die in them.

(unfortunate turn of phrase on your part I think)

 

[Bletchleyite]

It's worth pointing out that the maximum weight permissible for our loading ramps is 300kg. I bet there are quite a few buggys+ occupants+shopping etc that exceed this.

300kg is a lot. I'm on the big side as an adult and I'm only 120.

 

[hooverboy]

I suspect anything bigger than a 'standard' manual chair will take a bit of planning and possibly some temporary staging being built to get it off. It was really unclear what would happen to the lighter chairs from the correspondence I've had.

The other issue is keeping warm. As a wheelchair user as you are just sat down, you get a lot colder a lots faster than if you are standing around. In a train with no power in the winter it's going to be really unpleasant after about an hour or so.

temporary staging?????

if time is of the essence then you have a couple of difficult choices to make.
1)raise the alarm externally(999/control etc and advise you have special assistance on board.must be done first so responders can come to aid)
2) you must disembark as many people as possible as quickly as possible-those with limited mobility unfortunately are at the back of the queue
3) assistance will be required to remove said limited mobility passenger. people come first.hardware later, if time allows.
if it means using the wheelchair ramps as a slide for evacuation, so be it.

 

[philthetube]

A large number of lightweight chairs don't fold either as a rigid chair can be lighter and more efficient. Mine only weighs 10kg and I can pick it up one handed but it doesn't fold, just the wheels come off to get it in the car.

I'd much prefer a carry sheet to being boarded and stuck in a basket stretcher. I've been in both previously and it felt a lot more comfortable in the carry sheet

I have never known an occasion where a carry sheet has had to be used on the Underground, I can only imagine it happening following a derailment as trains are moved pretty quickly following breakdowns.

Cross transfer ramps of various designs exist
These can be used on any stock even LHCS or HST
Wide enough for wheelchair
Can also be half deployed in ‘L’ shape where narrow doors prevent full width use
Sliding door on HST powercar useful for this
Wheelchair passenger carried across where necessary chair following later
View attachment 53416View attachment 53415 View attachment 53416
View attachment 53415

There are many things which need to be right for this to happen,
Compatible stocks, floors at same height.
Tracks close enough together.
Not on a curve with canted track.
and probably others which I havent thought of.

 

[Llama]

I saw a brief for traincrew recently on train-to-train ("side to side") evacuation using a ramp. The brief clearly said that under no circumstances must any "occupied wheelchair or scooter" use the ramp like that. The emergency services must give assistance for anyone who cannot be assisted to walk over the ramp.

 

[philthetube]

Not arguing with that at all, however I would have thought that pushing someone over the ramp would be far safer than someone with two sticks walking.

 

[Llanigraham]

Not arguing with that at all, however I would have thought that pushing someone over the ramp would be far safer than someone with two sticks walking.

Not if the ramp isn't designed to take that loading. Note I do not state "weight" as the 2 things are different.

 

[OneOffDave]

I saw a brief for traincrew recently on train-to-train ("side to side") evacuation using a ramp. The brief clearly said that under no circumstances must any "occupied wheelchair or scooter" use the ramp like that. The emergency services must give assistance for anyone who cannot be assisted to walk over the ramp.

I understand the loading limit issue but do wonder if the risk assessment for this considered the risk inherent in spine boarding someone and the potential for causing harm. The risk is usually acceptable where there is a life imperative or immobilisation required to prevent injury, but may be excessive in a non-critical situation.

I've never had a satisfactory answer regarding when I'd be reunited with my wheelchair and what would happen to me in the interim. I can't see the ambulance service babysitting an uninjured wheelchair user for how ever many hours it would take to reunite them with their chair.

 

[Llama]

No you are quite right, this is little more than buck-passing.

 

[NoOnesFool]

Lost property department??

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