Train failing to stop at Conwy 'due to social distancing'

[YorkshireBear]

Over a year since this all sorted and TfW still try to justify this practise. One word, pathetic.

 

[SteveM70]

How are TfW managing this for passengers going to Conwy? Presumably someone could come from somewhere miles away, laden with luggage, and get to Chester to be told their connection isn’t stopping at Conwy. What do they do? Chuck them out at Llandudno Junction?

Oh, and I’m that event I bet the delay repay claim would get rejected too, as it’ll be “computer says no”

 

[_toommm_]

On a lot of these platforms you can fit one full coach. If TFW care so passionately about social distancing, can the guard open their local door, then ask passengers to exit from the next door along, with the guard using the external access switch.

I wouldn’t have thought something like this would be allowed, but when Northern operate two sprinters to Rose Hill Marple, it’s only long enough for three coaches at Hyde North. As they don’t have SDO, the guard exits from their door, then uses the external access switch to open each passenger door accommodated on the platform, leaving the rear coach of the back Sprinter locked. Doors shift through the external access switch, locked via the door control panel, guards door shut, two buzzes and you’re away…

(Edited for clarity)

 

[Watershed]

There really needs to be a proper assessment of the health and safety risks of stopping at these stations, and mitigating measures put in place to counteract any risk there might be to either train staff or passengers.

Precisely. I would be very interested to see their assessment of the risks, both Covid related and otherwise, which they impose on (would be) passengers by refusing to serve certain stations. Perhaps someone should ask them for it under FoI...

After all, if other train companies can use selective door opening, such as previously mentioned on the Fort William to Mallaig line, or places such as Bilbrook on the Wolverhampton to Shrewsbury line, why can't Transport for Wales?

Bilbrook is a little different - I believe the 170s have 'proper' SDO. However yes, if even Scotrail (who operate under very similar legal obligations) have managed to continue local door operations, on top of the rest of the industry, that strongly points to it being an issue on TfW's part.

 

[trainophile]

I wouldn't have expected any trains from Llandudno to Manchester Airport to call at Conwy: it'd require two reversals to do so.

Did you perhaps board elsewhere?

Oh gosh I must have got that wrong then . I was staying in Chester and had a day trip to Llandudno and another one to Colwyn Bay/Prestatyn so it must have been on one of those. Apologies for the confusion, when I saw the topic I remembered hearing that "this train will not call at Conwy today" and vaguely wondering why, if it usually did.

 

[PHILIPE]

How are TfW managing this for passengers going to Conwy? Presumably someone could come from somewhere miles away, laden with luggage, and get to Chester to be told their connection isn’t stopping at Conwy. What do they do? Chuck them out at Llandudno Junction?

Oh, and I’m that event I bet the delay repay claim would get rejected too, as it’ll be “computer says no”

Advice merely says that the nearest station is Llandudno Jn. Reminds me of the saying "Like it or Lump it"

 

[David Goddard]

Heard about this over a year ago but thought this had stopped before Christmas. Clearly not, and what an apalling way to treat their customers.
Suppose if these stations are request stops they do not get reported as a fail to call either, so they get away with it.
Conversely Greater Anglia have made all request stops into full stops since Covid.

So, TfW, what's wrong with this:
1. Train stops at platform.
2. Guard opens local door and then steps onto the platform two metres from the train
3. Customers board or alight as appropriate
4. Guard then gets back on the train, closes doors, buzzbuzz and off you go.

 

[Andy Pacer]

How are TfW managing this for passengers going to Conwy? Presumably someone could come from somewhere miles away, laden with luggage, and get to Chester to be told their connection isn’t stopping at Conwy. What do they do? Chuck them out at Llandudno Junction?

Oh, and I’m that event I bet the delay repay claim would get rejected too, as it’ll be “computer says no”

Good point. And would the passenger even know until the train literally fails to stop at their required station.

 

[LSWR Cavalier]

Locals and those in the know can use The Junction without too much trouble, there are plenty of buses from there to Conwy. I should do that rather than hoping the train stops as promised.

 

[py_megapixel]

Is a passenger who has to wait for the next train because of this ridiculous policy permitted to claim Delay Repay relative to the arrival time had the train stopped?

 

[Watershed]

Is a passenger who has to wait for the next train because of this ridiculous policy permitted to claim Delay Repay relative to the arrival time had the train stopped?

The next train? If you're hoping to head to somewhere like Hopton Heath, your next train is [insert guess] months from now!

 

[py_megapixel]

.The next train? If you're hoping to head to somewhere like Hopton Heath, your next train is [insert guess] months from now!

Well obviously... but I was thinking about scenarios such as this where it is actually vaguely feasible to catch the next train

 

[Watershed]

Well obviously... but I was thinking about scenarios such as this where it is actually vaguely feasible to catch the next train

Unless the failure to call was advertised at the time of booking, yes you could claim Delay Repay.

 

[mmh]

Was waiting on the 1622 departure towards Birmingham International. For some reason, due to short platform length, only ‘limited services’ are stopping at the station - it’s long enough for 2 carriages so don’t understand that but hey ho. Anyway the 1622 is advertised on the electronic display board to stop here, on request. 15 other people were there.

train flew through. Called customer relations and apparently as it’s 4 cars it can’t stop due to ‘social distancing’ - as I said the platform is long enough for 2 cars so can’t understand that. Trains stop at tiny halts with platforms barely one coach long and just open one or two doors. Apparently only 2 car trains will stop, but how are ordinary passenger supposed to know? Also absolutely no information that the train would not stop.
Woman on the phone was very helpful and apologetic, not her fault at all.

Whilst not an issue for me to walk to Llandudno Junction (which I am currently doing), it is for people who may have mobility issues.
Dreadfully handled by TFW.

I complain about this to TFW multiple times a week. They do nothing. That they don't even bother to update the information display to show the services as cancelled, they just disappear after the train has flown through, is completely unacceptable.

Next one Eastbound from Conwy after 1622 in a mere four hours at 2019?

What I don't quite understand is why the electronic display board at Conwy (as advised by the OP) would still be advertising the train as calling (on request) at 1622, the best part of an hour after it had departed Holyhead at 1525 when surely it would have be known, by then, that it wouldn't.

The OP will be correct. This happens on a daily basis. They never bother updating the display.

 

[Llandudno]

Locals and those in the know can use The Junction without too much trouble, there are plenty of buses from there to Conwy. I should do that rather than hoping the train stops as promised.

There are approx 2 buses per hour from Llandudno Junction Station approach and/or the nearest stop on the main road to Conwy Mon-Sat 0700-1700 on Mondays to Saturdays, plus occasional evening and Sunday buses.

The more frequent 5/X5 buses pickup 100+ yards away from the station, but out of town travellers or irregular public transport users would not be aware of this. Needless to say there is no signage at Llandudno Junction station.

If there are two or more travelling together it’s more cost effective to use the taxi company based at Junction station, circa £4 per taxi to Conwy!

 

[trainophile]

There are approx 2 buses per hour from Llandudno Junction Station approach and/or the nearest stop on the main road to Conwy Mon-Sat 0700-1700 on Mondays to Saturdays, plus occasional evening and Sunday buses.

The more frequent 5/X5 buses pickup 100+ yards away from the station, but out of town travellers or irregular public transport users would not be aware of this. Needless to say there is no signage at Llandudno Junction station.

If there are two or more travelling together it’s more cost effective to use the taxi company based at Junction station, circa £4 per taxi to Conwy!

That's still £4, or whatever a bus fare is, that you shouldn't have to pay on top of your rail ticket.

 

[BJames]

This nonsense needs to stop. It's nothing more than another example of Covid related crap customer service, that is all. There is no need.

Agreed. Pathetic from TfW, so many other ways of managing this situation that don't involve treating customers like they are an inconvenience.

 

[mrd269697]

I complain about this to TFW multiple times a week. They do nothing. That they don't even bother to update the information display to show the services as cancelled, they just disappear after the train has flown through, is completely unacceptable.



The OP will be correct. This happens on a daily basis. They never bother updating the display.

Exactly.

Interesting thread, some informative comments. Their approach to it makes no sense and I’m starting to feel they should be forced to serve stations. Simply not serving them isn’t an option in my honest opinion.

to clarify, there was absolutely no information at Conwy the train would not stop. Rather, after it had flown past, the information board went blank ‘refer to timetable for information’ ect. Totally unacceptable.

 

[Mojo]

And yet a longer train is better for social distancing...

This is the stated reason why stations like Llanfairpwll haven’t had a train service since July last year.

 

[island]

It’s a 15-20 minute walk or less than 5 minutes on the bus to Llandudno Junction. Not the end of the world like some people seem to be making it out to be.

(And yes TfW are arranging taxis for the tiny minority of passengers who need them.)

 

[Watershed]

It’s a 15-20 minute walk or less than 5 minutes on the bus to Llandudno Junction. Not the end of the world like some people seem to be making it out to be.

(And yes TfW are arranging taxis for the tiny minority of passengers who need them.)

It's the thin edge of the wedge though isn't it? If it's ok to effectively close stations without much by way of notice, let alone consultation, on quite spurious operational grounds, what hope have all other low usage stations got?

Not all stations are as fortunate as Conwy in that regard. Llanfair PG is quite a distance to Bangor and there are several other stations on the HoWL and Cambrian Coast which are also shut at the moment.

If TfW are providing taxis then they should make this clear on their website rather than simply stating there are no trains.

 

[Bikeman78]

Make it DOO only. Problem solved.

Staff and unions need to be careful what they wish for.

Quite. The guards in Wales really need to think through their strategy on this one. Previously they walked through the trains and collected fares earning revenue for the company. The valleys is now basically a free for all, as are local journeys on the main line network.

 

[ABB125]

Am I right in thinking that Valley (on Anglesey) has no trains at the moment, for the same reason?

 

[Reliablebeam]

I'm appalled reading this, as a Welshman from this area. This strikes me as unions misjuding the public mood. The guards heads would explode round here in GWR/TFL land. DOO has to be implemented in Wales urgently.

 

[bramling]

How are TfW managing this for passengers going to Conwy? Presumably someone could come from somewhere miles away, laden with luggage, and get to Chester to be told their connection isn’t stopping at Conwy. What do they do? Chuck them out at Llandudno Junction?

Oh, and I’m that event I bet the delay repay claim would get rejected too, as it’ll be “computer says no”

TfW don’t seem to care. I visited Sugar Loaf and Hooton Heath by Road last week, nothing at all to hint that the stations are essentially temporarily closed.

 

[krus_aragon]

Oh gosh I must have got that wrong then . I was staying in Chester and had a day trip to Llandudno and another one to Colwyn Bay/Prestatyn so it must have been on one of those. Apologies for the confusion, when I saw the topic I remembered hearing that "this train will not call at Conwy today" and vaguely wondering why, if it usually did.

Don't worry about it: I'd guess that your day trip to Colwyn/Prestatyn was on a service going to Holyhead, which can include a call at Conwy.

(Incidentally, there was a point - deep in the mists of time - when all Llandudno trains *did* go via Conwy: the original branch line service of the 1850s ran to Conwy until Llandudno Jn station had been built.)

 

[Snow1964]

It’s a 15-20 minute walk or less than 5 minutes on the bus to Llandudno Junction. Not the end of the world like some people seem to be making it out to be.

(And yes TfW are arranging taxis for the tiny minority of passengers who need them.)

Would it not be more sensible for the taxis to have collected the passengers few minutes before the train and got them to Llandudno Junction so they can catch it there.

I really don’t understand Welsh railway staff who seem to defend the customer unfriendly approach taken of advertise the train as stopping on station display then leave passengers stranded.

They have had 15 months to alter the platform displays, why is no one bothering

Longer term, if line is regularly operated by 4 car trains, why don’t they extend the platforms to accept them and simplify operations

 

[duncanp]

Would it not be more sensible for the taxis to have collected the passengers few minutes before the train and got them to Llandudno Junction so they can catch it there.

I really don’t understand Welsh railway staff who seem to defend the customer unfriendly approach taken of advertise the train as stopping on station display then leave passengers stranded.

They have had 15 months to alter the platform displays, why is no one bothering

Longer term, if line is regularly operated by 4 car trains, why don’t they extend the platforms to accept them and simplify operations

Let's just hope that social distancing is abolished on July 19th, in England at least.

Then TfW might actually have to start serving stations such as Bucknell and Hopton Heath again.

And if it is "safe" to serve short platform stations in England, there is no reason similar stations in Wales can't be served.

No doubt Mr Drakeford will try and keep social distancing going in Wales for a few weeks longer than in England, just to be different.

I may be stupid, but what is wrong with:-

• Train stops at Conwy/Hopton Heath etc
• Guard opens all doors that are able to be opened, and steps on to the platform, so that he/she is at least 2 metres from the door.
• Guard watches passengers alighting and boarding
• When it is safe to do so, guard closes all the doors and gives the signal for the train to depart

Most of the passenger will, I guess, be wearing masks, and the time which they spend less than two metres from the guard will be a fraction of a second. So the risk to the guard will be non existent or minimal.

If the stations ARE to remain closed, then there should be adequate publicity regarding alternative arrangements, such as replacement buses or taxis.

It sounds as though this thread should be merged with the Companies Using "Because Of COVID" As An Excuse For Poor Service thread.

 

[Bantamzen]

It’s a 15-20 minute walk or less than 5 minutes on the bus to Llandudno Junction. Not the end of the world like some people seem to be making it out to be.

(And yes TfW are arranging taxis for the tiny minority of passengers who need them.)

The railways are there to serve passengers. If they cannot or in this case will not it is up to them to notify passengers in advance, not expect them to have to find alternative ways to board services they have paid for.

As others have said, there is no excuse for this especially if it is driven by staff / union pressure. Because this kind of experience drives people away from the railways. And fewer passengers equals less need for trains, which equals less need for people to operate them. The government isn't going to fund them without profit forever, sooner or later railway staff had better get used to dealing with passengers again. Certainly in my corner of West Yorkshire they seem to have no problem with this, guards manage to operate local doors, conduct ticket checks and even (dare I say it) chat with passengers. So I'm not sure why this is not possible on TfW.

 

[LSWR Cavalier]

Conwy station is on a curve and goes through a break in the town wall, is there room to extend the platforms and make them wide enough? Is it the only station on the north Wales coast with short platforms?