Train Fine - Straight to Court

Joined
24 Jul 2020
Messages
12
Location
Birmingham
Hi all

Apologies if this sounds convoluted. I'm actually sick of this situation and story....

Long story... long... I got the train from Northfield, Birmingham, to Longbridge Birmingham (for those who don't know, this is ONE STOP). On exiting the train I emptied my pockets of rubbish and the ticket into the little bin by the door and went to leave the station. On exiting i was stopped by a ticket inspector who has never been there in my experience. I was issued a £20 fine + the £2.50 cost of the ticket for obviously not having a ticket. He was a pretty reasonable guy and I explained what had happened he said if i appealed chances are I would have the fine dropped. I knew it was 50/50 so I called the number on the penalty fare ticket the next day where the adviser said they would send me a letter, she took my name and address and phone number. I completely forgot about the situation and heard nothing from anyone.

6 MONTHS LATER

I received a magistrates letter explaining that they had sent 2 letters and were charging me £150 fine, £100 if i pleaded guilty through the post. Having being given a few days to give a response (as the letter received was dated 2 weeks prior) I knew that any appeals process wouldn't be resolved by the date. VERY begrudgingly I just pleaded guilty and thought I'd chalk it up to experience and get it out the way. I have since spoken to the magistrates who has pushed the hearing date to September.

Weeks later, I received another letter from the magistrates charging, not only the full amount of £150, but also an additional £180 in fees. (£330 in total, for a £2.50 ticket!!!)

I thought this was a joke so I contacted the magistrates and the rail ombudsman and my complaint was eventually pushed on to Transport Focus (watchdog). They phoned having reviewed the case and said do I still have the receipt? Obviously not.

Now they've basically said there's nothing they can do as it's a legal matter. A legal matter that Network West Midlands caused (Or whoever deals with their fines as there seems to be no clear answer and a lot of people unwilling to point me in the right direction).

I had originally put the lack of communication down to the current global crisis, however the transport watchdog said that letters would have been sent prior to lockdown. Basically admitting that there was no excuse for their lack of communication.
Now I'm looking at a £330 fine and court summons despite having no confirmation or demand for payment from ANYONE.

I imagine there was some sort of mess up at the first instance, whether my initial appeal was lost or something, who knows. But this is ridiculous, for a £2.50 ticket. I imagine (and I totally understand) that the appeal would not have gone in my favour and I would have had to pay the £20. Not an issue, chalk it up to experience. But to claim that they have sent letters when they haven't and take my to court is insane and incredibly unfair.

Has anyone got any idea what I can do?
 
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RailUK Forums

30907

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Welcome to the forum.

1. Could you give us approximate dates for the incident and the correspondence.

2. Did you pay the Penalty Fare originally? If not, why not?

3. Have you lived at the same address throughout this period?

4. Did you pay the £100?

5. What was the explanation the court gave for their second letter?
 
Joined
24 Jul 2020
Messages
12
Location
Birmingham
Thanks you for the replies

  1. The fine was given to me on the 16th of Jan. I appealed over the phone the 17th as the guy giving me the fine said I had fair grounds. It was 50/50 but was worth a try. The took my details and heard nothing from there.
  2. Explained above.
  3. Yes. Not moved for nearly 3 years
  4. No. The magistrates letter came 6 months later stating the rail company (the company that runs the rail, network west midlands I think) had written to me twice (they didn't) and now was being hit with a £150 fine (supposedly reduced by 33% if I pleaded guilty). I did so thinking that was it and wanted it out the way
  5. The second letter from the magistrates included the £180 court fees. £330 in total. As I am appealing, the guilty plea and court date has been suspended until September.
I hope this helps
 
Last edited:

DavidB

Member
Joined
18 Nov 2009
Messages
1,008
I think this one is a summary offence, meaning that the magistrates have to be informed within six months of the alleged offence, or it can't be prosecuted - from the timing given above, I assume the TOC forwarded it to the magistrates just within that time limit.

Given that you pleaded guilty, it will now be difficult to argue that you never received the letters from the TOC.
 
Joined
24 Jul 2020
Messages
12
Location
Birmingham
I think this one is a summary offence, meaning that the magistrates have to be informed within six months of the alleged offence, or it can't be prosecuted - from the timing given above, I assume the TOC forwarded it to the magistrates just within that time limit.

Given that you pleaded guilty, it will now be difficult to argue that you never received the letters from the TOC.
I got the magistrates letter. But the issue is I didn't get any other letters informing me a) whether the appeal was successful or not and b) chasing money at all which they claim to have sent me resulting in this court fine. I'm happy if the appeal wasn't successful and I will have to pay the £20. But I'm being accused and punished for ignoring letters from the train company that I didn't receive
 

some bloke

Member
Joined
12 Feb 2017
Messages
1,060
I'm sorry to hear of this mess. All isn't lost - hopefully you can communicate with the company that you didn't receive the letters and they may take a different view. Things do just go wrong sometimes, and if for some reason they thought you were ignoring letters, they were within their rights to prosecute. It sounds like you thought you'd appealed and they thought you were avoiding them.

What have you pleaded guilty to? Would you like to upload the correspondence, with identifying details removed?

It seems you didn't submit a formal appeal. To appeal a Penalty Fare, you would have to submit it in writing - see Schedule 2 of the Regulations.
The staff member was required to provide you with that information in writing, under Regulation 5 (2).

The company is free to prosecute under the normal railway legislation unless you have submitted a written appeal and either there has been a formal decision or a time limit has been reached, as specified in Regulation 11 (3) (a) and (b).
 

BanburyBlue

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Joined
18 May 2015
Messages
462
Sorry, this sounds wrong. If the case was sent to the Magistrates court, you would have been sent a letter from the court asking you to plead either guilty or not guilty. If you had pleaded guilty, you would have got a letter telling you what the fine was. If you had pleaded not guilty, you would have been asked to attend court for a trial. If the court didn’t receive a reply, for whatever reason, the case would continue in you absence and again, you’d get a letter to tell you the fine.

Are you sure these letters were from the Magistrates Court?
 
Joined
24 Jul 2020
Messages
12
Location
Birmingham
Sorry, this sounds wrong. If the case was sent to the Magistrates court, you would have been sent a letter from the court asking you to plead either guilty or not guilty. If you had pleaded guilty, you would have got a letter telling you what the fine was. If you had pleaded not guilty, you would have been asked to attend court for a trial. If the court didn’t receive a reply, for whatever reason, the case would continue in you absence and again, you’d get a letter to tell you the fine.

Are you sure these letters were from the Magistrates Court?
Sorry I must not have been clear. I had a perfectly legitimate letter from the magistrates with the fine etc.

Where this falls down is that I had no communication from ANYONE between me appealing the initial £20 fine in January and recieving the magistrates letter in mid June, despite the form stating that I had been written to by the train company.

The fault here is that I did not have any letters from any train company informing me of my appeal or chasing up payments.

I've appealed again here detailing everything that has happened: https://www.westmidlandsrailway.co.... the Penalty,Railcard for a discounted ticket
 

some bloke

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12 Feb 2017
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1,060
As that page says, to meet the formal requirements you have to appeal in writing within 21 days. So you would now expect to have to instead communicate with the company's prosecution department or their agent, asking that they drop the case and settle by letting you pay the penalty fare or another sum including admin costs.

Did the staff member provide you with the information in writing about how/when to appeal, as in Regulation 5(2)(g) and (h)? Unfortunately you can't legitimately claim that your phone call was a valid appeal.

If the company kept to the regulations, they aren't obliged to remind you of your debt if you don't pay or submit a valid appeal.

If you upload photos/text of the correspondence including what you have pleaded guilty to and written (with identifying details removed) people on here may be better able to advise.
 
Last edited:

MotCO

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Joined
25 Aug 2014
Messages
1,210
It seems as though at least one letter from the rail company was not received. Is it worth asking for copies of the missing letter(s) which would indicate whether or not they were sent to the correct address. If they were wrongly addressed, that would explain why you did not receive them, and might moderate any action taken by the rail company.
 

tspaul26

Member
Joined
9 Jun 2016
Messages
454
Hi all

Apologies if this sounds convoluted. I'm actually sick of this situation and story....

Long story... long... I got the train from Northfield, Birmingham, to Longbridge Birmingham (for those who don't know, this is ONE STOP). On exiting the train I emptied my pockets of rubbish and the ticket into the little bin by the door and went to leave the station. On exiting i was stopped by a ticket inspector who has never been there in my experience. I was issued a £20 fine + the £2.50 cost of the ticket for obviously not having a ticket. He was a pretty reasonable guy and I explained what had happened he said if i appealed chances are I would have the fine dropped. I knew it was 50/50 so I called the number on the penalty fare ticket the next day where the adviser said they would send me a letter, she took my name and address and phone number. I completely forgot about the situation and heard nothing from anyone.

6 MONTHS LATER

I received a magistrates letter explaining that they had sent 2 letters and were charging me £150 fine, £100 if i pleaded guilty through the post. Having being given a few days to give a response (as the letter received was dated 2 weeks prior) I knew that any appeals process wouldn't be resolved by the date. VERY begrudgingly I just pleaded guilty and thought I'd chalk it up to experience and get it out the way. I have since spoken to the magistrates who has pushed the hearing date to September.

Weeks later, I received another letter from the magistrates charging, not only the full amount of £150, but also an additional £180 in fees. (£330 in total, for a £2.50 ticket!!!)

I thought this was a joke so I contacted the magistrates and the rail ombudsman and my complaint was eventually pushed on to Transport Focus (watchdog). They phoned having reviewed the case and said do I still have the receipt? Obviously not.

Now they've basically said there's nothing they can do as it's a legal matter. A legal matter that Network West Midlands caused (Or whoever deals with their fines as there seems to be no clear answer and a lot of people unwilling to point me in the right direction).

I had originally put the lack of communication down to the current global crisis, however the transport watchdog said that letters would have been sent prior to lockdown. Basically admitting that there was no excuse for their lack of communication.
Now I'm looking at a £330 fine and court summons despite having no confirmation or demand for payment from ANYONE.

I imagine there was some sort of mess up at the first instance, whether my initial appeal was lost or something, who knows. But this is ridiculous, for a £2.50 ticket. I imagine (and I totally understand) that the appeal would not have gone in my favour and I would have had to pay the £20. Not an issue, chalk it up to experience. But to claim that they have sent letters when they haven't and take my to court is insane and incredibly unfair.

Has anyone got any idea what I can do?
Without seeing the court papers it is difficult to provide specific advice, but the situation appears to be that:

1. You were issued with a penalty fare.

2. You did not appeal against that penalty fare in writing within the prescribed period.

3. If you had paid the penalty fare, this would not in itself prevent criminal court proceedings from being brought against you.

4. The operator has initiated court proceedings, either in respect of the non-payment of the penalty fare (civil) or as a prosecution in the basis that you travelled without a valid ticket (criminal).

5. It is not clear whether the court proceedings are criminal or civil.

6. Either way, you responded to the court to admit the allegations. On the information provided, you do not appear to have lodged a statement of mitigation with the court.

7. You have now received further correspondence setting out the full costs of your decision to accept liability.

8. It will be very difficult to overturn this outcome regardless of whether it is civil or criminal. You may be able to appeal, but this will entail further cost for you, you are likely to need legal assistance from a suitably qualified solicitor and (even if you are successful) you will not generally be able to recover all of these costs.

9. The question of whether you received ‘chasing’ letters from the operator is collateral to all of the above. The time to raise these points was earlier in the legal process.


NB The above looks at your legal situation. It may still be possible to reach some commercial settlement with the operator through direct discussions as others have suggested, but this will depend on part on whether the proceedings were civil or criminal. For example, if criminal the operator cannot agree to waive or reduce the fine element of your sentence.
 

some bloke

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It will be very difficult to overturn this outcome
if criminal the operator cannot agree to waive or reduce the fine element of your sentence.
Unless it's a criminal court which hasn't decided the case yet?

cjames_c@hotma, do you mean that there hasn't been a court hearing? When you mention "appealing" below, are you talking about the penalty fare, or a request that the court adjourn while you try to sort it out with the company?
  1. The magistrates letter came 6 months later stating the rail company.... had written to me twice....and now was being hit with a £150 fine (supposedly reduced by 33% if I pleaded guilty). I did so thinking that was it and wanted it out the way
  2. The second letter from the magistrates included the £180 court fees. £330 in total. As I am appealing, the guilty plea and court date has been suspended until September.
 

tspaul26

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Joined
9 Jun 2016
Messages
454
Unless it's a criminal court which hasn't decided the case yet?
If it is a criminal court and a guilty plea has been entered then it will be very difficult and risky to resile from this.

cjames_c@hotma, do you mean that there hasn't been a court hearing? When you mention "appealing" below, are you talking about the penalty fare, or a request that the court adjourn while you try to sort it out with the company?
Or is it an appeal against:
i. Criminal conviction
ii. Criminal sentence
iii. A civil order

The information provided thus far is incomplete and may well not be using terminology in accordance with its usual technical meanings. I do not mean this as a criticism as I would not necessarily expect a layman to be familiar with the various bits of jargon that come up in legal proceedings.

Ideally, we would be provided with copies of the actual paperwork and correspondence (with suitable redactions to remove personal information and so forth).
 

some bloke

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12 Feb 2017
Messages
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If it is a criminal court and a guilty plea has been entered then it will be very difficult and risky to resile from this.
I hope you'll forgive what may be an ignorant question, but can a private prosecutor not drop a case at any time before the hearing, even with a guilty plea?
 

tspaul26

Member
Joined
9 Jun 2016
Messages
454
I hope you'll forgive what may be an ignorant question, but can a private prosecutor not drop a case at any time before the hearing, even with a guilty plea?
It depends on the procedure being used which is why we need to see the actual papers.

As to section 23, this only applies where the Director of Public Prosecutions has conduct of the proceedings.

A private prosecutor could in theory apply to withdraw the summons or offer no evidence, but this can only be done before conviction.

Hence, the need to see the papers to establish what has happened, why and when.
 
Joined
10 Mar 2018
Messages
10
The OP previously posted on MSE where nobody could understand the timeline and they were advised to post here.

What I can't understand is: "Weeks later, I received another letter from the magistrates charging, not only the full amount of £150, but also an additional £180 in fees. (£330 in total, for a £2.50 ticket!!!)".

And: "The second letter from the magistrates included the £180 court fees. £330 in total. As I am appealing, the guilty plea and court date has been suspended until September"

It was very difficult to get the OP to explain clearly if they'd already been fined or not, and what the two "letters" from the mags were.
 

tspaul26

Member
Joined
9 Jun 2016
Messages
454
Hi all

Apologies if this sounds convoluted. I'm actually sick of this situation and story....

Long story... long... I got the train from Northfield, Birmingham, to Longbridge Birmingham (for those who don't know, this is ONE STOP). On exiting the train I emptied my pockets of rubbish and the ticket into the little bin by the door and went to leave the station. On exiting i was stopped by a ticket inspector who has never been there in my experience. I was issued a £20 fine + the £2.50 cost of the ticket for obviously not having a ticket. He was a pretty reasonable guy and I explained what had happened he said if i appealed chances are I would have the fine dropped. I knew it was 50/50 so I called the number on the penalty fare ticket the next day where the adviser said they would send me a letter, she took my name and address and phone number. I completely forgot about the situation and heard nothing from anyone.

6 MONTHS LATER

I received a magistrates letter explaining that they had sent 2 letters and were charging me £150 fine, £100 if i pleaded guilty through the post. Having being given a few days to give a response (as the letter received was dated 2 weeks prior) I knew that any appeals process wouldn't be resolved by the date. VERY begrudgingly I just pleaded guilty and thought I'd chalk it up to experience and get it out the way. I have since spoken to the magistrates who has pushed the hearing date to September.

Weeks later, I received another letter from the magistrates charging, not only the full amount of £150, but also an additional £180 in fees. (£330 in total, for a £2.50 ticket!!!)

I thought this was a joke so I contacted the magistrates and the rail ombudsman and my complaint was eventually pushed on to Transport Focus (watchdog). They phoned having reviewed the case and said do I still have the receipt? Obviously not.

Now they've basically said there's nothing they can do as it's a legal matter. A legal matter that Network West Midlands caused (Or whoever deals with their fines as there seems to be no clear answer and a lot of people unwilling to point me in the right direction).

I had originally put the lack of communication down to the current global crisis, however the transport watchdog said that letters would have been sent prior to lockdown. Basically admitting that there was no excuse for their lack of communication.
Now I'm looking at a £330 fine and court summons despite having no confirmation or demand for payment from ANYONE.

I imagine there was some sort of mess up at the first instance, whether my initial appeal was lost or something, who knows. But this is ridiculous, for a £2.50 ticket. I imagine (and I totally understand) that the appeal would not have gone in my favour and I would have had to pay the £20. Not an issue, chalk it up to experience. But to claim that they have sent letters when they haven't and take my to court is insane and incredibly unfair.

Has anyone got any idea what I can do?
In order for us to provide any useful assistance, please provide copies of the court papers and correspondence (redacting any personal information) so that we can establish what stage the proceedings have reached and what your options are.
 

Enthusiast

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18 Mar 2019
Messages
487
Sorry, but the entire story makes little sense.

If a Magistrates' Court was involved it will be a criminal matter. Magistrates' Courts do not deal with civil cases (bar some family and domestic matters).

A Magistrates' Court would not send a notice of fine with an option to plead guilty or not guilty. The court needs to receive a plea first (together with details of the defendant's means via a form MC100) and only if a guilty plea is entered will it set a reduced fine. £150 is not a standard Magistrates' Court "default" fine. If no means are known an income-related fine is imposed using £440pw as an assumed income. If the defendant is on benefits (which the court will need to be informed of) then £120pw is used. Having said that, £180 is a little on the high side for costs claimed in a railway fare evasion case; it is usually around £120 to £150 depending on who is prosecuting the case.

I also think some incorrect terminology has been used.

As I am appealing, the guilty plea and court date has been suspended until September.
If the OP was appealing the Magistrates' Court decision he will have to have made a formal appeal to the Crown Court. It is unlikely that this appeal would be heard by September.

Much more information and sight of papers is needed. But just one thing for the OP to consider:

But to claim that they have sent letters when they haven't and take my to court is insane and incredibly unfair.
You don't know they haven't sent any letters. All you know is that you, apparently, didn't receive them.
 

tspaul26

Member
Joined
9 Jun 2016
Messages
454
If a Magistrates' Court was involved it will be a criminal matter. Magistrates' Courts do not deal with civil cases (bar some family and domestic matters).

I agree with everything that @Enthusiast has said save that it is possible (albeit unlikely) that we are dealing with Magistrates’ Court civil proceedings in respect of the unpaid penalty fare.

This is yet another reason why we need to see the papers.
 
Joined
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12
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These are some great responses, thanks folks. Unfortunately to pretend I know what a lot of what you're talking about would be a lie lol.

I have attached the SECOND letter I received from the magistrates after sending back a guilty plea. The first letter went back filled in and like fool and in haste i forgot to scan it before I did so.

I should point out that I have had contact with Notts Magistrate and they know I'm appealing and have pushed the date back to September. They have confirmed this in writing. It all fairness they have been pretty supportive but can't help in terms of appealing with train companies. (Why would they?). I also pointed out to them that I wasn't happy that the letter was dated the 3rd but didn't arrive until the 14th.

As mentioned above, I have sent an appeal through to West Midlands Railway and am waiting to hear back.

I have also had an appeal through the transport watchdog hit a dead end as they have no powers in the matter. Literally all I can do is get West Midlands Railway to agree for me to pay the initial 20 fine. At this point Im more than happy to just to make this end.

I can't stress this enough, I received NO letters from ANY train companies. The first letter I had after appealing on the 17th of January was the Magistrates letter in Mid June stating that I had been sent 2 letters.

3.jpg
 

WesternLancer

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Joined
12 Apr 2019
Messages
1,921
These are some great responses, thanks folks. Unfortunately to pretend I know what a lot of what you're talking about would be a lie lol.

I have attached the SECOND letter I received from the magistrates after sending back a guilty plea. The first letter went back filled in and like fool and in haste i forgot to scan it before I did so.

I should point out that I have had contact with Notts Magistrate and they know I'm appealing and have pushed the date back to September. They have confirmed this in writing. It all fairness they have been pretty supportive but can't help in terms of appealing with train companies. (Why would they?). I also pointed out to them that I wasn't happy that the letter was dated the 3rd but didn't arrive until the 14th.

As mentioned above, I have sent an appeal through to West Midlands Railway and am waiting to hear back.

I have also had an appeal through the transport watchdog hit a dead end as they have no powers in the matter. Literally all I can do is get West Midlands Railway to agree for me to pay the initial 20 fine. At this point Im more than happy to just to make this end.

I can't stress this enough, I received NO letters from ANY train companies. The first letter I had after appealing on the 17th of January was the Magistrates letter in Mid June stating that I had been sent 2 letters.

View attachment 81290
Hi - not a solution to your probs but may be worth all orgs concerned (esp Train company or its agents, but probably anyone involved with this who says they wrote to you) for copies of letters they claim they have sent you just to check the addresses on them. Simple typo at some stage with your address might be reason for you not getting key letters - which might strengthen your case. Worth a try maybe?
 

tspaul26

Member
Joined
9 Jun 2016
Messages
454
Thank you for providing the copy notice.

In summary:

1. You were issued with a penalty fare.

2. You did not appeal against that penalty fare in writing in time.

3. Due to non-payment of the penalty fare, you have been prosecuted for breach of the Railway Byelaws.

4. Due to the prosecution, you are no longer liable to pay a penalty fare as this has been superseded.

5. You pleaded guilty in writing to the offence libelled.

6. The court accepted your guilty plea and you have been convicted of the offence.

7. The court has sentenced you and made ancillary orders. This means that you must pay a £147.00 fine, a £32.00 victim surcharge, the £2.50 fare and the prosecution costs of £150.00.

8. These sums are payable to the court, not to the prosecutor. The prosecutor cannot ‘do a deal’ with you to replace the sentence handed down by the court.

9. Payment of the sums due to the court is now late.

10. If you cannot afford to pay £331.50 immediately, you will need to request a payment arrangement with the fines Enforcement Team using the contact details provided. This will generally require you to demonstrate that there has been a change of circumstances since you were sentenced or to provide additional information that the court has not yet seen.

11. You are out of time to appeal to the High Court.

12. You are out of time to appeal to the Crown Court. It is possible to apply for permission to appeal late, but this is not guaranteed to be granted. You will probably require legal assistance to do this and there will be associated costs, although legal aid might be available depending on your circumstances.

13. It may be possible to apply for your conviction to be set aside, but you will probably require legal assistance to do this and it is not guaranteed to be successful. Even if it is set aside, you would then need to also apply to change your plea and enter a successful defence.


Overall, if you want this to go away then the simplest solution is to pay the sums required under the collection order as soon as possible.
 

WesternLancer

Established Member
Joined
12 Apr 2019
Messages
1,921
Thank you for providing the copy notice.

In summary:

1. You were issued with a penalty fare.

2. You did not appeal against that penalty fare in writing in time.

3. Due to non-payment of the penalty fare, you have been prosecuted for breach of the Railway Byelaws.

4. Due to the prosecution, you are no longer liable to pay a penalty fare as this has been superseded.

5. You pleaded guilty in writing to the offence libelled.

6. The court accepted your guilty plea and you have been convicted of the offence.

7. The court has sentenced you and made ancillary orders. This means that you must pay a £147.00 fine, a £32.00 victim surcharge, the £2.50 fare and the prosecution costs of £150.00.

8. These sums are payable to the court, not to the prosecutor. The prosecutor cannot ‘do a deal’ with you to replace the sentence handed down by the court.

9. Payment of the sums due to the court is now late.

10. If you cannot afford to pay £331.50 immediately, you will need to request a payment arrangement with the fines Enforcement Team using the contact details provided. This will generally require you to demonstrate that there has been a change of circumstances since you were sentenced or to provide additional information that the court has not yet seen.

11. You are out of time to appeal to the High Court.

12. You are out of time to appeal to the Crown Court. It is possible to apply for permission to appeal late, but this is not guaranteed to be granted. You will probably require legal assistance to do this and there will be associated costs, although legal aid might be available depending on your circumstances.

13. It may be possible to apply for your conviction to be set aside, but you will probably require legal assistance to do this and it is not guaranteed to be successful. Even if it is set aside, you would then need to also apply to change your plea and enter a successful defence.


Overall, if you want this to go away then the simplest solution is to pay the sums required under the collection order as soon as possible.
My instinct also is that the full sum needs paying ASAP. However, then maybe this could be pursued

"I knew it was 50/50 so I called the number on the penalty fare ticket the next day where the adviser said they would send me a letter, she took my name and address and phone number. I completely forgot about the situation and heard nothing from anyone. "

Since the rest of the chain of events seems to flow from the failure to receive said letter (possibly a form to make a written appeal on and comply with penalty fare regs?) - whilst the OP would have been wise to study the regs at that time, it is not unreasonable for a £2.50 fare and £20 fine which the OP had resigned themselves to paying you may well not do so - so the failure to receive the response to that call is critical.

What is the likelihood of the organisation that the OP rang providing a record of any such call? Would a recording still survive (given that ticketing prosecution issues may take time to come to court you might assume it would do)?

If that provided evidence that the OP had been failed in some way it may be possible to get recompense for the fine from parties involved as a 'good will' gesture or Transport Focus may be open to being persuaded to look again at the case with regard to this aspect of it (the appeal ref the penalty fare)?

The number the OP rang should have made it clear he would need to appeal in writing after all, yet the OP does not write as if he had been given any information to that effect.
 

tspaul26

Member
Joined
9 Jun 2016
Messages
454
My instinct also is that the full sum needs paying ASAP. However, then maybe this could be pursued

"I knew it was 50/50 so I called the number on the penalty fare ticket the next day where the adviser said they would send me a letter, she took my name and address and phone number. I completely forgot about the situation and heard nothing from anyone. "

Since the rest of the chain of events seems to flow from the failure to receive said letter (possibly a form to make a written appeal on and comply with penalty fare regs?) - whilst the OP would have been wise to study the regs at that time, it is not unreasonable for a £2.50 fare and £20 fine which the OP had resigned themselves to paying you may well not do so - so the failure to receive the response to that call is critical.

What is the likelihood of the organisation that the OP rang providing a record of any such call? Would a recording still survive (given that ticketing prosecution issues may take time to come to court you might assume it would do)?

If that provided evidence that the OP had been failed in some way it may be possible to get recompense for the fine from parties involved as a 'good will' gesture or Transport Focus may be open to being persuaded to look again at the case with regard to this aspect of it (the appeal ref the penalty fare)?

The number the OP rang should have made it clear he would need to appeal in writing after all, yet the OP does not write as if he had been given any information to that effect.

This will need to wait I think.

The most pressing matter is how to deal with the conviction and sentence. Unless this is paid in full ASAP then the OP will need to decide whether he wishes to expend time, effort and money seeking to re-open the court proceedings which could well make no difference to the ultimate outcome.

This requires immediate decisions as any further delay could well prejudice the chances of success in this regard even further.
 

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