Train fire at Craven Arms on the evening of 22/05/2022.

[Efini92]

You've got me thinking now. I could have sworn it was repaired and put back into service. I'll have a look and see if I can find out.

I’ve just had a look and they did indeed repair the middle car at Wolverton. Every day is a school day.

 

[Jez]

Of course the main thing is the incident wasn't a lot worse but this is going to be a massive blow to TFW losing 2 x 150s from their fleet. In some ways its good it wasn't a 175 as TFW really cannot afford to lose any of them at the moment.

I agree about the 197s, its high time some were in service. It is so annoying seeing them sitting in sidings whilst on a rammed 175/150/153! Same with the units in Cardiff. Its particularly annoying when TFW tell us how the service is going to be vastly improved when all this extra stock is in place. Passengers are concerned with the here and now and dont want to be told how great the service will be in 2 years time!

 

[Anonymous10]

Of course the main thing is the incident wasn't a lot worse but this is going to be a massive blow to TFW losing 2 x 150s from their fleet. In some ways its good it wasn't a 175 as TFW really cannot afford to lose any of them at the moment.

I agree about the 197s, its high time some were in service. It is so annoying seeing them sitting in sidings whilst on a rammed 175/150/153! Same with the units in Cardiff. Its particularly annoying when TFW tell us how the service is going to be vastly improved when all this extra stock is in place. Passengers are concerned with the here and now and dont want to be told how great the service will be in 2 years time!

however the crewe need to know how to use them if a accident took place and they weren't well trained the crew would likely reach for a button they have on a 175/15x that they may not have in the same place on a 197

 

[wobman]

Is it not time to get a couple of the 197s into service some seem to have been on test since last year.

No 197s have passed their mileage accumulation testing yet, tfw are planning an August introduction date on the Bleanau branch for the 197s.

 

[wobman]

Of course the main thing is the incident wasn't a lot worse but this is going to be a massive blow to TFW losing 2 x 150s from their fleet. In some ways its good it wasn't a 175 as TFW really cannot afford to lose any of them at the moment.

I agree about the 197s, its high time some were in service. It is so annoying seeing them sitting in sidings whilst on a rammed 175/150/153! Same with the units in Cardiff. Its particularly annoying when TFW tell us how the service is going to be vastly improved when all this extra stock is in place. Passengers are concerned with the here and now and dont want to be told how great the service will be in 2 years time!

There's testing to complete and huge amounts of staff training to complete before the new units are introduced

 

[Bill57p9]

Maybe TfW could borrow a couple of 158s from ScotRail since they have reduced need for trains these days....
(Yes, I am being flippant)

 

[John Luxton]

No 197s have passed their mileage accumulation testing yet, tfw are planning an August introduction date on the Bleanau branch for the 197s.

Presumably that will free up a 150?

 

[berneyarms]

Of course the main thing is the incident wasn't a lot worse but this is going to be a massive blow to TFW losing 2 x 150s from their fleet. In some ways its good it wasn't a 175 as TFW really cannot afford to lose any of them at the moment.

I agree about the 197s, its high time some were in service. It is so annoying seeing them sitting in sidings whilst on a rammed 175/150/153! Same with the units in Cardiff. Its particularly annoying when TFW tell us how the service is going to be vastly improved when all this extra stock is in place. Passengers are concerned with the here and now and dont want to be told how great the service will be in 2 years time!

Equally would passengers expect that the trains have been sufficiently tested to be deemed safe to travel on, and that the crews were fully trained in how to operate them before they are pressed into service?

These things take time.

 

[Jez]

Equally would passengers expect that the trains have been sufficiently tested to be deemed safe to travel on, and that the crews were fully trained in how to operate them before they are pressed into service?

These things take time.

Of course. But the overcrowding is getting beyond a joke now. A few times ive travelled recently and its not been pleasant at all. There simply aren't enough carriages to meet demand on certain services.

 

[Anonymous10]

Of course. But the overcrowding is getting beyond a joke now. A few times ive travelled recently and its not been pleasant at all. There simply aren't enough carriages to meet demand on certain services.

and there's not an awful lot tfw can do about it theres no spare prm compliant dmus as has been said 100 times but this is way off topic. back to the incident when tfw are saying they're working with industry partners to source spare stock is this other tocs ie extra 15x stock from gwr / northern ect ?

 

[wobman]

Presumably that will free up a 150?

That's the plan 1x150 freed up from the Bleanau branch and then in September the 197s go onto the Chester to Liverpool service.
It's a phased introduction which means 1x197 into service and 1x175 goes off lease with tfw.

Tfw need more units now and they are trying to get 2x150s from Northern on loan.

 

[SeanG]

I've just been sent photos (worry, not sure how to attach them) of the two units involved in a siding, and the track has collapsed underneath them ...

 

[Peter Sarf]

Interesting video @keithboddey, thanks.

Judging by the presence of what seems to be slight smoke damage on one side I would hope the fires did not take hold long enough to do much more than cosmetic damage on the worse side. In one of the other photos I was trying to judge if the window had completely broken or just the outer pane. Plus point is it does not look like a darkened shell inside.

 

[Bikeman78]

Interesting video @keithboddey, thanks.

Judging by the presence of what seems to be slight smoke damage on one side I would hope the fires did not take hold long enough to do much more than cosmetic damage on the worse side. In one of the other photos I was trying to judge if the window had completely broken or just the outer pane. Plus point is it does not look like a darkened shell inside.

It is just the outer pane. I think the interiors are okay although there will be smoke damage.

 

[6Gman]

That's the plan 1x150 freed up from the Bleanau branch and then in September the 197s go onto the Chester to Liverpool service.
It's a phased introduction which means 1x197 into service and 1x175 goes off lease with tfw.

Tfw need more units now and they are trying to get 2x150s from Northern on loan.

Which, of course, in terms of overall capacity means no improvement.

 

[Anonymous10]

Which, of course, in terms of overall capacity means no improvement.

thats for initial introduction remember and more than 60 are on order if i recall correctly to replace the 175 and 158 fleets

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

That's the plan 1x150 freed up from the Bleanau branch and then in September the 197s go onto the Chester to Liverpool service.
It's a phased introduction which means 1x197 into service and 1x175 goes off lease with tfw.

That’s one 175 they could be using to strengthen a two carriage formation.

 

[wobman]

That’s one 175 they could be using to strengthen a two carriage formation.

That's the plan tfw have but if enough people complain on social media maybe plans can change.

The problem being is that Chester depot is changing from a Alstom maintenance facility to a Caf run depot very soon. So the 175 lease ends later this year unfortunately.

 

[wobman]

Which, of course, in terms of overall capacity means no improvement.

Eventually there will be 77x197 units that's ontop of the 8xmk4 sets that tfw will hopefully have aswell. Tfw also have the 230's x5 if they ever run and the 769s, maybe tfw could order more or longer 197s in the future.

 

[Spartacus]

I've just been sent photos (worry, not sure how to attach them) of the two units involved in a siding, and the track has collapsed underneath them ...

The track hasn't exactly collapsed under them. Another 150 was sent to rescue them from the siding, but couldn't get brake release due to a suspected leak between the two demic sets. They were uncoupled from each other but when they were the rear one rolled away down the siding into the buffers, snapping the track at the fishplates which I think's exposed a bit of a void in that area. The theory I've heard is there was just enough air to release those brakes but also to not engage the automatic parking brake.

 

[158747]

Possible the rear unit had its brakes isolated?

 

[Caaardiff]

The problem being is that Chester depot is changing from a Alstom maintenance facility to a Caf run depot very soon. So the 175 lease ends later this year ununfortunately.

That's now not the plan, all the 175s will still be around into next year.

 

[skyhigh]

The theory I've heard is there was just enough air to release those brakes but also to not engage the automatic parking brake

That should never happen unless there was a fault with the unit or bits have been isolated. Parking brake releases when there's around 1.8 bar of air in the system, by which point there should be enough air in the brake cylinder for at least a step 1 brake application, though at 1.8 bar you're almost at step 2.

 

[wobman]

That's now not the plan, all the 175s will still be around into next year.

That's going to be interesting trying to run 2 fleets from 1 small depot, I hope there's some good project planning involved by tfw & caf.

 

[Spartacus]

That should never happen unless there was a fault with the unit or bits have been isolated. Parking brake releases when there's around 1.8 bar of air in the system, by which point there should be enough air in the brake cylinder for at least a step 1 brake application, though at 1.8 bar you're almost at step 2.

I reckon there was either a fault probably caused by the accident or some error in maintenance, an old hand here's sure that's happened before, but very rarely.

Given the damage below the solebar incurred in the collision it'd be surprising if the brakes HAD come off without incident. It's easy to say with hindsight but perhaps considering the damage was known about beforehand it might have been a touch naïve to expect it to be a simple rescue job, and I'm guessing it wasn't scotched when it was detached again.

 

[Envoy]

Surely, enough crew are already trained on 197’s to get the Blaenau Ffestiniog > Llandudno service up and running? That would free up a 150.

I also wonder why the testing is taking so long on the 197’s being as Northern and West Midland Railway already have similar trains?

TfW are in a crises situation regarding rolling stock and it is very frustrating that they are taking so long to get the 197’s into service.

 

[Caaardiff]

Surely, enough crew are already trained on 197’s to get the Blaenau Ffestiniog > Llandudno service up and running? That would free up a 150.

I also wonder why the testing is taking so long on the 197’s being as Northern and West Midland Railway already have similar trains?

TfW are in a crises situation regarding rolling stock and it is very frustrating that they are taking so long to get the 197’s into service.

The answer to that has already been given in a post just yesterday.....

Also WMR are still testing their 196 units, none are in passenger service. TfW have a number of 3 cars out on testing this week, not sure whats happening with the 2 cars.

No 197s have passed their mileage accumulation testing yet, tfw are planning an August introduction date on the Bleanau branch for the 197s.

That would lead the issue to be CAF, not the TOCS.

But anyway, this is off topic and there's other forums already open to discuss 197s.

 

[AdamWW]

On a good day the Coryton-City line runs with three 150s.

So if - as today - they reduce it to a single diagram supplemented by ticket acceptance on Cardiff Bus they get two extra sets to run a full service elsewhere on the Valleys.

On a bad day though the line runs with one or more diagrams covered by single 153s, in which case freeing those up doesn't help as much.

 

[Anonymous10]

On a good day the Coryton-City line runs with three 150s.

So if - as today - they reduce it to a single diagram supplemented by ticket acceptance on Cardiff Bus they get two extra sets to run a full service elsewhere on the Valleys.

On a bad day though the line runs with one or more diagrams covered by single 153s, in which case freeing those up doesn't help as much.

but if 2 153s are freed up they can run the rhymney line or anything else they're cleared for freeing up 150s

 

[BrokenSam]

That's now not the plan, all the 175s will still be around into next year.

I heard even longer than that! Though that was back in March.