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"Train is between ..." message on platform screens

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frediculous

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I noticed today at Rochester that the passenger information screens were displaying the location of the next service.

For example:
A Southeastern service formed of 8 coaches. Train is between Sole Street and Rochester

I haven't seen this before and wondered if this is a new feature or has been available elsewhere in the country for some time?
 
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Shunter_69

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Pretty sure it’s a recent thing. Saw similar text at Stratford last week.

Seems like a useful thing to display but doubt everyone pays attention to all the info on those screens.
 

Frontera2

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I noticed today at Rochester that the passenger information screens were displaying the location of the next service.

For example:
A Southeastern service formed of 8 coaches. Train is between Sole Street and Rochester

I haven't seen this before and wondered if this is a new feature or has been available elsewhere in the country for some time?

It’s new to Southeastern, went live at 11:00 this morning. TfL Rail beat us to it as it’s live for their trains at Stratford.

The difference with our solution though is that it will announce the information too ( when the train is late ) so it doesn’t matter if people don’t spot it on the display.
 

tgrb

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That’s pretty cool!

Mind you those are who are interested are probably tracking it in OTT RTT etc

Are joe public bothered?
 

Parallel

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It features on station help points with the screen across the network but as far as I know this is the first time it’s actually featured on a LED station display board
 

61653 HTAFC

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Noticed similar at Dewsbury (the large screen at the bottom of the steps to platform one) last year. Since the timetable change I've had no cause to use Dewsbury in that direction, so I've no idea if the screen was (re?)moved when the barriers were put in.
 

3141

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Does it add anything to the existing information about the time the train is expected? That information isn't always reliable, but it is very specific. Being told that the train is between Sole Street and Rochester is only helpful if you know where they are and how far away, and even then you don't know if it's only just left the further place or is almost at the nearer one.
 

CC 72100

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That’s pretty cool!

Mind you those are who are interested are probably tracking it in OTT RTT etc

Are joe public bothered?

Interestingly enough, in Hungary if you use the app you can see the real time position of your train on the app.

You can also on train details find out what loco or unit is working it!!

I can't vouch for whether it's a genuinely well used feature or not!
 

61653 HTAFC

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Does it add anything to the existing information about the time the train is expected? That information isn't always reliable, but it is very specific. Being told that the train is between Sole Street and Rochester is only helpful if you know where they are and how far away, and even then you don't know if it's only just left the further place or is almost at the nearer one.
The one at Dewsbury was giving more than just "between x and y..." messages. It also had "departing x" and "at y" at times.
 

Frontera2

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Does it add anything to the existing information about the time the train is expected? That information isn't always reliable, but it is very specific. Being told that the train is between Sole Street and Rochester is only helpful if you know where they are and how far away, and even then you don't know if it's only just left the further place or is almost at the nearer one.

It adds plenty.. let’s say the train is showing “Delayed” because the train is at a stand somewhere, the displays tell you the location where the train is, and it’s somewhere that’s at least 20 minutes away. The customer can now make an informed choice whether to wait or consider an alternative route... very useful in the London area in particular.

It doesn’t just show which station the train is at, it shows passing points too.
 

frediculous

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Indeed, the service I saw it shown for did not stop at Sole Street. At least you know if a "Delayed" train is moving or is still stuck at its starting station too. Looks to be of benefit to me
 

Bletchleyite

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Indeed, the service I saw it shown for did not stop at Sole Street. At least you know if a "Delayed" train is moving or is still stuck at its starting station too. Looks to be of benefit to me

It's of note in the case of the south WCML that if it was at Northampton and showing Delayed it's probably a traincrew issue, whereas elsewhere it could be something more serious.
 

FlippyFF

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https://twitter.com/Se_Railway/status/1045278488184463360?s=09 mentions this.

I'm sure as I was sat on the 17:50 at St Pancras last night I heard the following around 17:40 :

"Platform 12 for the 17:46 to Maidstone West calling at (blah blah blah). This train is currently at St Pancras"

Does it change the message if the service is running late i.e. instead of 'at St Pancras' would it say ''at Ebbsfleet on it's inward journey'?

Simon
 

700007

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Yes this is a new feature first rolled out on TfL Rail currently between Stratford and Brentwood stations. You can see 'train departed Manor Park at 13:03'. At Stratford, they manually sometimes do add in 'Class 315 unit' or 'Class 345 unit'. This is to aid passengers in the event of disruption so they know where their train is and also aid staff in knowing where the doors will be to assist mobility impaired passengers.

If the train hasn't departed yet, it will say 'Not yet departed London Liverpool Street'. I believe it currently isn't active between London Paddington and Heathrow Airport yet but I can only imagine it will soon.
 

700007

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Envoy

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On routes where the type of train and length of train vary, such information can be most useful. Sometimes, a short very full train is followed by a longer train a few minutes behind. By knowing this, it might induce some travellers to wait for the longer train.
 

CC 72100

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Thinking about it, they used to do this on the RER in Paris too but only during times of disruption. Was a useful indication of whether it was a "bad day" or a "really bad day" (at which point - revert to plan B!)
 

Bletchleyite

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On routes where the type of train and length of train vary, such information can be most useful. Sometimes, a short very full train is followed by a longer train a few minutes behind. By knowing this, it might induce some travellers to wait for the longer train.

In disruption, taking the second train out is almost always a good idea unless you're in a massive hurry.
 

WelshBluebird

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In disruption, taking the second train out is almost always a good idea unless you're in a massive hurry.

Although in times of disruption it is sometimes better to get on the first train possible in the direction you are going!
 

jon0844

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I hope GTR will get this on screens as it's so useful when a train shows as Delayed to know where it is, as finding out it is at the origin and not just one station away makes all the difference on switching to your plan B (the every passenger has, right?).
 

Killingworth

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The information provided to travellers is only as good as the equipment's programming, then the information it receives, it can process, and then display.

It's the little things that grate at our station. It displays and announces trains are going to Manchester Picc - Pick? We only have one platform and two trains in opposite directions can be announced as arriving at the same minute. A train may show as delayed, announced as delayed and to await further announcements - just as it arrives in the platform.
 

mmh

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I think this is a bad idea. Just because you can make a bit of information available doesn't make it useful. I can't think of any reason to care where a train has previously been or where it currently is - just give a reasonable indication of when it's likely to arrive.

If I couldn't understand English (or even perhaps if I didn't hear the whole announcement) I might just be listening out for the name of the place I want to go to. If the train isn't going somewhere it shouldn't be mentioned.

Terminating arrivals should never get recorded announcements too, so you should never hear a previous station. London Waterloo's auto-announcer is particularly silly - it announces platform alterations for arrivals)
 

greaterwest

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I think this is a bad idea. Just because you can make a bit of information available doesn't make it useful. I can't think of any reason to care where a train has previously been or where it currently is - just give a reasonable indication of when it's likely to arrive.

If I couldn't understand English (or even perhaps if I didn't hear the whole announcement) I might just be listening out for the name of the place I want to go to. If the train isn't going somewhere it shouldn't be mentioned.

Terminating arrivals should never get recorded announcements too, so you should never hear a previous station. London Waterloo's auto-announcer is particularly silly - it announces platform alterations for arrivals)
I don't think it's a bad idea at all. Sometimes it's not possible to give a "reasonable indication" of when a train is likely to arrive, for example if a passenger has been taken ill and requires ambulance attendance (staff at large stations already able to manually input delay times where appropriate, if they do know when the train is likely to arrive/depart).

I also think a calling pattern is quite obvious even if you don't speak English (a non-English person is likely to be watching the platform indicator boards anyway!)
 

tsr

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I quite like the way the Tube departure boards display “Held” when a train is planned to run, but has had to have its journey delayed for some reason. (Sadly the departure boards can be somewhat slow to actually show this message, but that’s something of a different problem.)

It’s a stark contrast to the National Rail network, where departure boards showing “Delayed” often aren’t differentiating between a scenario of a delay en route versus uncertainty as to whether a booked train may run at all. For example, “Delayed” can mean a train held to deal with an ill passenger, or you can get it filling up the boards during major disruption when it’s not clear if there’s even any stock or a crew to run a service.
 

jon0844

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'Delayed' is shown on most National Rail displays after a set time has elapsed with no movement, and it can result in Delayed being shown when there's no significant delay. One example is a train being slightly delayed between Knebworth and Welwyn North heading towards London.

Someone rocking up to the platform at Welwyn Garden City or Hatfield sees Delayed and has no idea why. Did it start from Cambridge? If not, it's a good hour away and there's also a good chance of it being cancelled or skip stopping.

If you can see it's at Knebworth then you can wait and be pretty confident. Users in other locations will be able to make similar decisions based on local knowledge even if tourists haven't got a clue.

This information is available to see online, so why not the screens?

I can't see any situation where this would not be useful information, and can easily be ignored by people if they so wish.
 
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Bletchleyite

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"Delayed" typically gets put up automatically when the Expected time is increasing by one minute every minute, i.e. the train is stationary. It is I guess a response to people saying that was ridiculous.
 

Skie

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Quite often during disruption Merseyrail will announce when trains are departing the major stations, so that people waiting at other stations know something is actually moving towards them. This seems like a good move, though dont know how useful it is for people unfamiliar with a location.
 

Dr Hoo

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This thread took me back to my time in North Kent in the mid 1980s. No fancy PIS displays, track diagrams on computer monitors, radios and what-have-you. Passenger information relied on what I will call an ‘open Tannoy’ from Rochester signalbox and a similar system from Gillingham signalbox to staff accommodation at platforms in the Medway Towns.

Nobody used headcodes or reporting numbers. It was all round where the train was heading and which signal section it was in. For example “Fast Cannon Street by the boneyard” was enough to get the wooden finger board out and quick manual announcement on the platform at Gillingham as to what train was approaching within the next minute. Other locations on the Up were “Just left Rainham”, “By the bakery”, “On the arches” [Luton Arches bridge], “In Fort Pitt Tunnel” and so forth. It was less important in the Down direction but “Bottom of the bank”, “Just left Strood”, “Over the water”, etc. could also be heard. It was amazing how staff could just hear this in the background and instinctively maintain situational awareness of where trains were, when they would arrive and in what order.

With a 12VEP formation you had 100 slam doors to keep an eye on but could get 200 luggageless and well-drilled Cannon Street passengers on and away in less than 30 seconds when things were running well. These days it seems to take longer that that after the train has stopped just to get the doors released on a typical Hope Valley local. (And yes, I know what has changed and that we can’t go back.)
 
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